How Does a neon screwdriver work?

[martinxxxxxx]

I think that we should have a IRL at some point, I would absolutely love to meet everyone.

We could all meet at one of the NEC things. It would be great, David could even have a stall selling his "text books".

Martin,

 

[david911cockburn]

Spartikus,

As a responsible adult (let alone a responsible electrician) you must prove that it can't happen.

 

[bernardgreen]

Well I did it recently to prove whether or not an RCD would trip, and it hurt just as much as it always has and the RCD didn't trip and I tested it with a ramp tester.

David

If the RCD was to tripp them around 30 milliamps had to flow through your body. This would require an entry point and an exit point for this current. So one point is the finger and the other point is maybe the other hand holding on to a metal pipe or damp shoes on wet grass. Or maybe you were wearing a grounding wrist strap to ensure you were grounded and therefor safe to conduct the experiment. That ground would be the ideal second point.

30 milliamps through the body can be extremely painful. 15 milliamps is also very painful but not enough to trip the average RCD.

 

[sparkticus]

Mathematically - there is damp in the atmosphere, if you are close enough to the mass of the earth the damp will connect your feet to the mass of the earth.

Why does lightning move across the sky in humid weather?

I can't say for certain I'm an electrician not a scientist, but I know pain when I feel it and you can't touch every circuit conductor during every circumstance.
Just doing it once and not getting hurt is not proof that it can't happen.
Just doing it once and getting hurt, is proof that it can!

You are writing a technical book right? Are you telling me that you have no scientific basis for what is in the book?

PS, yes you are not a scientist
PS, an electrician practices science

 

[david911cockburn]

Interesting thought Martin.

 

[JohnW2]

....drivel....

.....As I have requested, please provide ....

At risk of repetition, I think I have to again ask why on earth you are all still persisting in engagement?!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[sparkticus]

I think that we should have a IRL at some point, I would absolutely love to meet everyone.

We could all meet at one of the NEC things. It would be great, David could even have a stall selling his "text books".

Martin,

He would agree then not show up.

 

[martinxxxxxx]

Interesting thought Martin.

Have you done book signings anywhere??

 

[bernardgreen]

Why does lightning move across the sky in humid weather?

For the same reason it does so in dry air. Dielectric breakdown of the air between oppositely charged masses of air ( or accumulations of charged particles as in volcanic emmissions )

Do a bit of reading about atmospheric lightning.

Just doing it once and not getting hurt is not proof that it can't happen.
Just doing it once and getting hurt, is proof that it can!

The results prove that if it is a single point of contact there is no shock, no pain and no hazard.

The hazard is when the measures to ensure there is no possibility of a second point of contact are in-adequate or fail.

DIYers reading this should ignore Mr Cockburn's requests and advice since his precautions about second point of contact were obviously in-adequate ( that he got a painful shock id proof ) and therefor is knowledge id not reliable.

 

[david911cockburn]

Bernard,

I ramp tested the RCD to make sure it was operating at 30mA, then I deliberately touched the line circuit conductor to prove to myself that although less than 30mA flowed, the shock was still of a magnitude great enough to kill.
If the duration of the shock had been extended, I can assure you that the magnitude was great enough to kill. That's why I used the back of my finger, and started by doing it upstairs.

Spartikus,

My books are simply drawings designed for apprentices or mates to understand, I never looked at them as being scientific.
I am only an electrician, but you only need to be an electrician to undertake electrical installation.
This infact may well be a large part of our current problems, people thinking too much. Look at what has happened regarding 'touch voltages', automatic disconnection of supply within our specified times effectively renders detailed knowledge of touch voltages irrelevant to everybody other than the authors of the Regulations!

 

[david911cockburn]

DIYers yes please beware, touching a live circuit conductor is a very painful experience and will be so even when you are stood on floorboards!
Take it from someone who has had first hand experience, don't listen to people who 'theorize' that you can't hurt yourself because it isn't true!

 

[sparkticus]

prove to myself that although less than 30mA flowed, the shock was still of a magnitude great enough to kill.
If the duration of the shock had been extended, I can assure you that the magnitude was great enough to kill. That's why I used the back of my finger, and started by doing it upstairs.

What utter tripe this is. get a grip.

Spartikus,

My books are simply drawings designed for apprentices or mates to understand, I never looked at them as being scientific.
I am only an electircian, but you only need to be an electrician to undertake electrical installation.
This infact may well be a large part of our current problems, people thinking too much. Look at what has happened regarding 'touch voltages', automatic disconnection of supply within our specified times effectively renders detailed knowledge of touch voltages irrelevant to everybody other than the authors of the Regulations!

"I never looked at them as being scientific" You completely do not get the point do you? A book of such nature MUST be scientifically accurate.

"people thinking too much" No you lack the capacity for reasoned thought.


"I am only an electrician, but you only need to be an electrician to undertake electrical installation"

Oh dear, I am lost for words.

 

[david911cockburn]

Hi Martin,

No I haven't done any book signings, it isn't even finished yet in truth.
The only reason I wrote it was because I had no choice, I am still waiting for 25 e-mail replies from the IET. The BSI, the ESC, the ECA, the HSE and various other can't answer any of the questions I've asked them; and the BSI refuses to pass on any information (or the books I've written) to the appropriate commitees for comment.

Even the books publishers seem to have been threatened; and now it's proving difficult to get the amendments done.

All in all there seemk to be some powerful forces at work trying to prevent anybody seeing how simple earthing and fire alarm system can be!

 

[david911cockburn]

Spatikus,

You asked for a debate, suddenly the quality of your answers has gone down hill rather rapidly.

Try touching an energised line circuit conductor as I did, then debate me once you've grown up a bit.

 

[sparkticus]

DIYers yes please beware, touching a live circuit conductor is a very painful experience and will be so even when you are stood on floorboards!
Take it from someone who has had first hand experience, don't listen to people who 'theorize' that you can't hurt yourself because it isn't true!

DIYers for your own safety and the safety of others do not buy or read his pamphlet. Also, If your son or daughter intend on a career as an electrician then please do not be negatively influenced by this person. Real electricians are well educated, well trained and responsible.