How long does an EICR take.

[dishman]

How long should an ECIR take on a 3/4 bedroom property which is empty.

It probably has 9 circuits. The property is totally empty and most things are accessible.

Are all ECIRs equal?

If an electrician said half a day would this be acceptable?

If it were an hour would this be suspiciously short?

 

[ericmark]

When I did my C&G 2391 we had a board with a consumer unit, 5 sockets, a light switch and light and a few other domestic type items all with trunking so we could get easy access and it took about an hour to test with everything in front of one.

If one tested a house to the level taught when doing the C&G 2391 it would take all day. However we expect electricians to use their experience and common sense. The extreme is fast to test, be it a new build where you open a few sockets are everything is clearly OK and all tests show OK you know it does not really require every socket removing it is clearly A1, also with a house with old rubber cable then it does not take long to condemn the lot.

The latter is a problem, if the tester for example tests a ring final on one socket and finds the ring has been broken, that circuit is condemned, he does not test any further, there is no point, if he finds no earth on the lights, again one light which is not class II and whole circuit is condemned, with lesser faults he has to continue and list them, but once he finds something which is unsatisfactory on a circuit then really no point in going any further. With the exam we had to list all faults, but that is not the case in real life, once a circuit is found unsatisfactory, we stop. Who ever corrects the fault will re-test and give a certificate for that circuit.

Of course you can specify you want all faults found, for example before buying a property, so you can cost bringing it up to standard, but you would stipulate this before the guy started.

Rented property in Scotland may be different, here the EIRC is mandatory, so likely there is a set criteria, but rest of UK it depends what you ask for. In theory if not access to loft space, then tester should insist access is made, even if you have to remove slates, in practice that is not going to happen, he will just note no access.

In general I would expect half a day to inspect and test, a standard house, this includes writing out the paperwork, but it could take an hour or a whole day, the problem arises where the tester is paid by the job, what he wants is to find every circuit unsatisfactory, that way he is clear, he can't be taken to task for any errors as every circuit should have some work done on it and re-tested after. Some one paid by the hour is better, he has no need to rush and can write a meaning full report. You need to talk to the guy and feel you can trust him.

 

[dishman]

OK, sounds reasonable.

I think my guy did a resonable job but did not try too hard to look for faults so to speak.

It is hard to know what to expect i.e what is thorough, when does thorough becomes looking for faults and what is a rush job.

My guy took maybe 2 hours (paperwork to be sent later) after working on the property for a few days.

Everything seems competant otherwise.

But when it was mentioned the EICR would be so quick, I get a cold sweat.....thinking....is this a sub par job.

As with all these things, you do not know untill the job has begun and finished.

 

[ericmark]

After working on the property he likely knew what he would likely find, so 2 hours seems right.

 

[dishman]

That is reassuring then. I am probably expecting too much from the level of inspection. Bizzarly I have the feeling that I would have preferred more faults to be found as an indication of a thorough job.

How minor a fault does an ECIR go? For example, I noticed a cable in the loft (existing cabling) which is fed into a choc block, but is not in an enclosure.

Now, this ideally should be in an enclosure of some type, correct? Would this be picked up on an EICR? Or, if the choc block is safe....it would be deemed safe and would not be picked up.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

One can argue about how safe it is, or isn't, but it contravenes the Wiring Regulations, and would have been picked up if the electrician had seen it.

And there's the rub - he isn't going to inspect every inch of cable. He certainly isn't going to lift floors to check for the presence of inaccessible junction boxes, for example. How "reasonable" the effort has to be to inspect things is another topic for an inconclusive argument.

 

[dishman]

I thought that might be the case. Although, considering it's position in relation to where some of the work was carried out, it would/should have been seen. Hence I wondered how minor a thing would/should be flagged.

But, as you say, it logically comes down what is resonable. I would not expect every cable to be investigated. I guess what is resonable comes with experience and assessing overall visible condition of wiring in the rest of the property (especially if modifications are made elsewhere).

If the most important checks come up as a pass and there is nothing obvious that needs investigating deeper, I am happy.

 

[stillp]

Do the cables into that choc-block have any strain relief, for example clipped to joists?

 

[dishman]

I do not think they are under any strain. It has most likley been like this for a long time so am not too concerned as to it's safety. I mentioned it more out of curiousity as to whether it would/should be picked up in an inspection.

Personally, it would nice to have had an electrician who would have said "this is not good practice" best to fix it. He may still do that, I just have to wait for the report.

It is somthing I do not mind doing myself though.

 

[chivers67]

I would have expected him to open up the loft hatch and have a quick look. Is this choc block easy to notice or did you "hunt" for it a little?

 

[Lectrician]

You cannot expect a full examination of all items - Indeed, it is allowed "a random inspection of accessories".

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

It is difficult to say how long an EICR would take, not all properties and circuits are the same.
You may only have say nine circuits/Fuse/MCBs evident at an unopened board, but when opened each one of them breakers could have additional spurs leading from them. Then you may have a circuit that just has a handful of sockets on, then another that has many more or a lighting circuit with just a few lights, then another that has dozens of downright present. Then there are external electrics, including garages and outhouses.

When I used to work on the council planned work, they were asking for 3 to 4 properties to be EICR a day and with the paperwork, that was quite a daunting and unrealistic request on most days.
I think my personal record was 41 codes on a two bedroom bungalow, that was a fun.

Of course we are allowed agreed limitations and expected to only do a sample percentage of all accessories.
But really it is how long is a piece or string? if you are already familiar with the installation, that will certainly help with a quicker performance.

 

[securespark]

I used to inspect 20% of accessories on any given circuit.

 

[ericmark]

You have different classes for fault, a bare wire is the worst, there is immediate danger, after that it is a case if X, Y, or Z happens then there will be danger, and it is down to how likely is it that X, Y, or Z may happen. We have guide lines, the Electrical Safety Council has published a set of guide lines which tend to be used by most, they for example say if the internal cover inside a consumer unit is missing it should not be marked as a fault, and if there is no earth connected to a socket it should be marked as a fault.

But some of the items do seem wrong to my mind, having a few multi-socket adaptors plugged in it shows as a fault, personally I would say that is beyond ones remit with a EICR as all it needs is to be unplugged, it's not actually part of the installation.

Some other items also seem suspect, no cut out on an immersion heater is another example, with a thermal plastic header tank it is very important, with a metal header tank then not really that important and with solid fuel water heating used as well as the immersion heater if could be argued you don't want a cut out.

There is also the technical fault, which in real terms is no danger, a joint rapped in insulation tape can technically be undone without the use of a tool, so regulations wise it does not comply, but you would really have to be an idiot to unwrap the tape without turning off the power, so should it really be considered as a fault, we all know people put junction strips on where the ceiling rose was and simply shove it into the space above the plaster board, both down stairs where it would need you to remove a floor board to get access and upstairs where you can gain access through the loft, again if more than 1mm space to get access to live parts from above and no tool required then does not comply, but in real terms it presents no danger, unless insulation stripped back too far, so should it really be listed?

Any house holder can see a smashed socket, what he can't see is where the loop impedance is exceeded and as a result the MCB may not trip in the required time. The EICR is when the earth connections are actually tested and the figures written down, this is the bit you can't see, the list of circuits and the reading recorded for each circuit is the bit you can't do. RCD trip times, and prospective short circuit current is also beyond you to measure. It is these measurements which tell you not only how safe the installation is, but what can be done as far as modifying the installation. So with a loop impedance of 0.60Ω on the ring final you know you could extend it into a new extension, but with 1.30Ω you know it's on it's limit, so it will need a new circuit for extension.