how much on 32a

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I am in the process of planning a kitchen refit.

The hob will have a dedicated 40A 10mm supply.

There will be two ovens, warmig drawer and dishwwasher, plus normal gear like toaster , kettle and random small stuff

All Bosch:
oven 2.8Kw
Combi Oven 3.35Kw (I assume that this value is derived from a grill, oven element (or does the oven work from the grill element?) and the microwave) I dont know if one would ever use all at the same time.
Warming drawer 480 watts
Dishwasher specs say 2.4 - 2.8Kw

I had an electrician out for a quote. He said we could use 2 sockets inside the housings for the ovens (I realise now that some need to be hard wired, as those in my example - but, to be fair, he did not know which ovens we would use). When his quote arrived it includes new 3 consumer unit with MCB's (or whatever), including one for the Hob. In actual fact there is already a spare 40A breaker, which was used for a now defunct electric shower.

The question is: will the equipment above run off the normal 32A circuit, using Fused Connectors for the ovens? Or am I actually going to need a new circuit for the ovens?


Thanks
 
You could put the ovens on with the Hob most probably and you will probably also get away with a 32 amp instead of a 40 amp.
 
When I look at what we had in a caravan on a 16 amp overload, 99% of the time you would get away with a 32 amp supply. This may not comply with BS7671, but that was not the question, however who is doing the installing? As a scheme member, electrician, he needs to sign it complies, so he could refuse, even when it is unlikely to cause a problem.
 
The hob will have a dedicated 40A 10mm supply.
Oversized and unnecessary.

oven 2.8Kw
Combi Oven 3.35Kw
Both those and the hob can go on a single 32A circuit for cooking appliances, as used in the vast majority of UK homes.

Dishwasher specs say 2.4 - 2.8Kw
A standard item that can plug into any BS1363 13A outlet, just like the warming drawer and everything else.

When his quote arrived it includes new 3 consumer unit with MCB's (or whatever), including one for the Hob. In actual fact there is already a spare 40A breaker, which was used for a now defunct electric shower.
What may be 'spare' is irrelevant.
You do not need a new consumer unit just for a kitchen, unless the existing one is too old/undersized and if that is the case, the whole consumer unit should be replaced.

Unless there is something obvious missing here, the entire kitchen can be served by a 32A circuit for the cooking items and one or more socket outlet circuits.
All 100% standard and normal. Very likely identical to what is already there.
There is nothing to prevent you from having multiple circuits for various things, even to the extremes of one circuit for each individual item. However that will just add substantial cost and complexity for no benefit.
 
You need to refer to the oven MIs and post what they recommend
Yes, I get that.
We have not yet bought the appliances, and trying to avoid any issues . The info, as far as I can find, either says “plug and play” or hard wire.
Some ovens are P&P, but looks like they are basic ones. I know I should be able to download MI’s but am struggling to find them
 
Yes, I get that.
We have not yet bought the appliances, and trying to avoid any issues . The info, as far as I can find, either says “plug and play” or hard wire.
Some ovens are P&P, but looks like they are basic ones. I know I should be able to download MI’s but am struggling to find them

If you know what model your going for email the manufacturer and explain why you need them and I'd imagine they'll send you them reasonably quickly
 
The on-site guide use to (not bought one in years) tell one what diversity is allowed, but it seemed to be aimed at industrial installations, as my supply like many other homes is 60 amps, some homes do have 80 or 100 amps, but the standard fuse box was limited to 60, and modern consumer unit (CU) limited to 100 amps, so in real terms that is our limit, and it does not matter if the CU has 30 RCBO/MCB's will still only have 100 amp total.

So the appendix to BS 7671 warns about the problems with ring finals, note we don't have the same problem with radials.
The load current in any part of the circuit should be unlikely to exceed for long periods the current-carrying capacity of the cable (Regulation 433.1.5 refers). This can generally be achieved by:
(i) locating socket-outlets to provide reasonable sharing of the load around the ring
(ii) not supplying immersion heaters, comprehensive electric space heating or loads of a similar profile from the ring circuit
(iii) connecting cookers, ovens and hobs with a rated power exceeding 2 kW on their own dedicated radial circuit
(iv) taking account of the total floor area being served. (Historically, limit of 100 m² has been adopted.)
If we were to follow this, that would mean most non-portable (over 18 kg and no wheels) electrical equipment would need a dedicated supply, in most homes this would be silly, where the CU is in the kitchen, then we could over load one leg of a ring final, but in the main this will not happen, and note it says "long periods" it takes time for a cable to heat up.

So we do need a dedicated supply if over 3 kW, but at or near the limit, ovens, washing machines (not washer driers), dishwashers, and the like have large heaters, but do not use those heaters for long, a thermostat will start to work and the high load is only for a short time.

So the only, 3 kW or less, items which need a dedicated supply are the immersion heater, and maybe the tumble drier. The latter does not include heat pump types. A tumble drier may run for an hour or more at over 2 kW, the same with washer/drier, the immersion heater could take 4½ hours, so no debate there, it needs a dedicated supply, but an hour is up for debate, is that too long?

There is also a debate to if a washing machine belongs in a kitchen? In days gone by, we dragged the twin tub into the centre of the floor, and on washing day, no cooking could be done, so there was no mix of food and dirty clothes, but with the Bendix washing machine,
1761819522435.png
bolted to the floor, we got the mix of washing and cooking, there were problems, as soap/detergent of the time, caused foam, and it was not unknown for bubbles to shoot out of that lid on the top, and all over the floor, so cooking was limited when doing the washing. But load wise, it was hot and cold fill so very little load on the electrics.

Also cooking was at that time likely solid fuel, so that was also no load on the electrics.

So new homes around 1980/90 started to have untility rooms, so washing clothes and cooking did not mix. And we started to have two ring finals, best split side to side of the house, so more even loaded. Around the 90's to turn of the centrary we started to get RCD protection, and as time went one the RCD dropped from 100 mA to 30 mA and we started to get problems with them tripping, and the regulations in 2008 talked about taking account of danger that may arise from the failure of a single circuit such as a lighting circuit and reducing the possibility of unwanted tripping of RCDs due to excessive protective conductor currents produced
by equipment in normal operation. And being cheap skates, we wanted to try and get away with using just two RCD's, today we realise that did not really comply, but at the time, we thought we could get away with it, so to ensure a problem with a socket supply did not plunge one into darkness, we had to split the sockets to match the lights, so we started to split up-stairs and down-stairs to match the lights.

This increased the load down-stairs, so we started to use a third ring final for just the kitchen, and the debate started in earnest about using radials instead of ring finals, but then we moved to the RCBO which combines the RCD and MCB, so the split could return to side to side of the house, and having 20 odd circuits increased the cost of the installation, so the ring final came back into favour.

All this means we have many ways that the home, in particular the kitchen, is wired, there is no one system suits all. In 2004 the kitchen became a special location, as kitchen fitters were being blamed for some horrors in wiring, in Wales it still is, but England dropped the kitchen and garden as special locations, but still more care needs taking with both locations.

The problem is, we tend to look at our own house when answering questions, and I have three power supplies to my kitchen, cooker, ring final, and freezers, my freezers are supplied for an UPS supply so do not fail with a power cut, and my washing machine and tumble drier (heat pump) are in an utility room, not really checked if the utility room is the same RCBO, but the back-kitchen still has a washer/drier in the kitchen.

So two cookers, two showers (electric) washing machine, tumble drier, 2 dishwashers, and a washer drier, on a 60 amp supply, and the fuse has never ruptured since I have lived here for 5 years. There are only 2 of us, and there is a limit to how much power we can use, around 12 kWh per day. We have 5 bedrooms, so I suppose we could have many more living here.

But the whole reason for 6, 16, 32 amp RCBO's is so if we do overload a circuit, worse case scenario is it trips. If I look at total power used for the home (House and Flat)
1761822378158.png
the highest load is when we take a shower, and rare do we draw over 3 kW at any one time, except 00:30 to 05:30 when we have off-peak and run dishwasher etc. I think you are worrying about something unlikely to happen.
 
The first metre or so will be clipped surface inside a meter cupboard . Approx 2 M will be ran through boxed in skirting. The remainder will be surface behind the base units.

Thanks
 
The info, as far as I can find, either says “plug and play” or hard wire.
That will be solely down to the rating of the device. I.e under or over 13A.

Obviously you cannot use a plug and socket on an oven over 13A but the manufacturer is not going to say you must hard wire a 10A oven.
In fact (I think) if an oven can be plugged in then it must come with a moulded plug fitted.
 
That will be solely down to the rating of the device. I.e under or over 13A.

Obviously you cannot use a plug and socket on an oven over 13A but the manufacturer is not going to say you must hard wire a 10A oven.
In fact (I think) if an oven can be plugged in then it must come with a moulded plug fitted.

I understand that, but I came across (I think
On AO) a 13A oven, where the advice was hard wired.

In truth, it does not matter a great deal, I suppose.Plug in would be easier as the Sparks can do their thing and leave me to fit the oven.
My plan is now to run cables etc to appropriate positions and have a qualified guy do the connections.
Given the circs, is it fair to think a new CB and 3 radials (I assume that is what he meant) a bit OTT? I know that I could go back and talk about it, but I don’t want to waste his time - and I have plenty of time in my hands to do the grunt work.
The main reason for inviting a firm to quote was for a quicker install time to minimise kitchen down time.
 

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