Hybrid System???

[skuba]

Hi everyone

I'm moving to a new house in the next couple of weeks and it doesn't have an alarm fitted. My initial thought was to simply hire a local company to install an alarm, but I am concerned about how well they'll route the cables and what equipment they'll supply. So I've started considering fitting a system myself which will allow me to design my own bespoke system and maintain it in the future. I'm not particularly great at DIY but I do work in IT networking so I'm confident I'll be able to do the basic wiring and I'll be fine with the programming etc

As I want to avoid cables around the new house, I was thinking about a hybrid system with a powered signal box and control unit (to save replacing the battery outside) but wireless PIR's and door sensors etc inside. I've done some reading and I understand the Honeywell wireless systems are rated grade 2, which is good enough for me at home

Does this sound like a reasonable solution to you experts?

Thanks

 

[chaindaisy]

Hi,

In a broad sense, you are describing a 'Wireless with wired sounder' rather than a true hybrid system since it appears to be devoid of wired detection devices. With 'wireless' systems there is a choice of panel, either a wired external warning or a non wired. It seems that the only wiring you intend is to the external warning. In those circumstances you may opt for a wireless panel which has provision for a hard wired warning device and that would be the end of the matter, viz; a wireless system as opposed to a true hybrid, and in this event you should be paying far less for a wireless rather than a hybrid system, so your choice is correct.

Honeywell are a firm who, for want of a better term, having bought out a lot of others, now brand the 'bought outs' as Honeywell, which leads some to think that every Honeywell panel or system is actually produced by them. This is not correct. You would do well to research the market, although you have obviously done your homework. Look at the trade outlets, 'Security Warehouse' etc. as well as the 'majors'. Risco, Scantronic, and so on, before finally making a purchase. You should seek assurance that the wireless control panel you are purchasing retains features which allow for a hard wired external sounder. Many Scantronic panels have this facility, but the choice is yours.

 

[josh451]

The Honeywell system is actually a wired system with an RF portal enabling the wireless bits. Galaxy kits also don't come with an installation manual.

The thing with wireless, if installed properly and looked after, it'll look after you. If you are maintaining it and checking everything on a regular basis, inc replacing batteries, then there shouldn't be a problem.

A wired sounder is a good idea, but not essential, again, this is the maintenance side of stuff. The kit below you can do either

http://www.e-fireandsecurity.co.uk/scantronic-i-on16kit01-wireless-868mhz-alarm-kit/p4222#tdesc_6

 

[chaindaisy]

Hi Josh,

You are absolutely correct in every detail. However, the point I was attempting to make is merely that there is no need whatsoever for a hybrid system in this particular case.

I discussed with several leaders in the field, the conccept of hybrid, and although there were some abstentions it is generally agreed that a true hybrid panel is manufactured as such without the need for portals and various 'add on's'. In other words, a hybrid control panel has the immediate facility for both wireless and wired devices without furuther addition nor amendment. Hence, the Galaxy, amongst others, is not a true hybrid panel since it does not offer the above facility 'out of the box'. I am sure that, as a logical thinking engineer, you would agree.

There are several 'out of the box' wireless panels which are more than suitable for the requirements of this particular installation, therefore the advice offered is as much to do with 'expenditure'. Of course, if cost is not an obstacle then my advice may be ignored. It would not be the first, nor by any means the last time.

Best Wishes Josh.

 

[skuba]

thanks for the info. at the moment i'm considering...

Powermax Plus Quick Fit kit:
1 x Powermax Plus Control Panel
1 x MCS730 wireless sounder - Note; the kit is available without the MCS730 sounder which allows the Mains-powered sounder (MCS730AC) to be added.
1 x Door/window contact (MCT320).
2 x Next K9-85 Pet friendly wireless PIR
2 x MCT234 wireless keyfobs

...with the mains-powered sounder. i'd probably locate the control panel in a cupboard upstairs as close as possible to the bell unit to avoid routing cables through the house. i'd then go for an additional wireless keypad downstairs. how does that sound? or am i barking up the wrong tree?!

thanks

 

[chaindaisy]

Hi Skuba,

If you feel that is the system you want, then go for it. I am not here to put the 'dampers' on anyone. I should point out though, I have looked at Josh's Scantronic Ion system and it is quite impressive. I know that we all want our security in place 'like yesterday' but researching the market with a definite budget in mind is a 'must' so I would have a think before finally making a decision. At the end of the day though, it is really up to you. From a personal viewpoint, and millions of others may disagree with me, I have always preferred both a wired keypad and wired sounder direct from the control panel ... but that's just me. You are doing well so far.

Take Care.

 

[josh451]

Chaindaisy, my post wasn't a dig at you, i was just merely saying that there are wireless systems that are pretty good. They seem to have a bad name by some people. Some people prefer wired. i believe that they're both as good providing they are maintained and kept working properly.

Indeed, the scantronic system is very good, fitted quite a few. If the OP fits one, I can offer plenty of support

The powermax is ok, but the control panel is butt ugly, so if you put it away in a cupboard, then you have to either use the fobs or have another keypad. The proper keypad is rather chunky and the little commander, i think its called, is pretty pointless as it has no display. The scantronic, however, looks pretty good. And you seem to be concerned about aesthetics, not wanting to run cables etc

 

[oasistechnical]

Josh

the FLEX 20 / 44 come with open source software on a disk, which includes a detailed user manual and the engineer manual as well!!

they are available from all leading Honeywell stockists, and they are also able to encompass all peripheral components

IE wireless portal


Oasis

i know this because we fit em!

 

[chaindaisy]

Hi Josh,

I get a peculiar feeling when someone's having a dig at me, and nine times out of ten I ignore it. In your case I was merely clarifying your post and at no time did I feel that you were having a dig at me. Believe me, I've come across a few who do it on a regular basis, and you are not one of them. You come across to me as a genuine character, and a decent one at that. What's more, you know what you're talking about and don't deal in the proverbial bull. I'll always appreciate your excellent comments and shall look to you for advice should I need it. Your advice in this post was and is brilliant. You were bang on with the Scantronic Ion, as I mentioned in a previous post.

Having a dig ? No chance.

Take care Mate.

 

[josh451]

Oasis

Didn't think about the Flex, I thought the OP was meaning something like a G2 with an RF portal. You can buy them as kits i think. But I don't do galaxy so i'll bow to the greater knowledge.

Mind you though, that Mk8 keypad looks more like a calculator than anything else! Ha!

 

[bernardgreen]

They [wireless systems ] seem to have a bad name by some people. Some people prefer wired. i believe that they're both as good providing they are maintained and kept working properly.

my "bad words" are for those who promote wireless systems without making clear the problems that affect some wireless system due to the necessary compromises that have to be made between reliable operation and cost to manufacture.

It is not possible with licence exempt channels to maintain clear communications as there is no restriction on the use of legal compliant equipment by as many people as want to use it.

There is now an acceptance that digital TV will for many people be affected by the G4 mobile phone and internet service transmitters. That is after the hype that digital TV was far better than analogue. It might be better ( in some ways it is a step backwards ) but it still depends on the wireless receivers being able to hear the information being sent to them.

 

[josh451]

I never mentioned you as having bad words about wireless systems, or anyone else's name for that matter.

So why are you talking about licenses and bloody tv's when this topic is about alarms? The systems the OP and I have recommended are both good quality.

The only bit of useful information in your post is

wireless systems without making clear the problems that affect some wireless system due to the necessary compromises that have to be made between reliable operation and cost to manufacture.

But it was the OP who suggested he'd looked at a Honeywell galaxy! He even talks about alarm grades!!! Hardly a yale system now is it?

 

[bernardgreen]

I wasn't saying it was a Yale system. It applies to all wireless linked equipment and not just alarm systems.

To rely on a radio link to the bell box to trigger an alarm is to put a weak link into what, with good design, can be a reliable system.

The reference to TV reception being affected by G4 transmissions was to highlight the fact that a lot of equipment that at present works well will have its operation compromised by transmissions from other equipment which ( other than using radio ) has no obvious ( to the general public ) connection with the equipment that is affected.

 

[chaindaisy]

Hi Bernard,

I don't think Josh was making a hasty comment, it appeared fairly reasonable to me. I know your feelings about wireless, you have made them patently clear in several posts, and I must confess I tend to go along with you on many of your valid points. But let's not knock Josh for his initial statement. I have just come off replying to a post which was so trivial it belied belief, so are we trivialising here ? I think we should ask ourselves that question, if only to be honest to ourselves. Anyway, regarding your comments on digital, my personal view is that someone somewhere has made a lot of money out of messing up a perfectly good analogue system. I agree with your comment regarding this aspect totally.