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Ideal Logic - Hive install help

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by Jackr123, 23 Oct 2020.

  1. Jackr123

    Jackr123

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    Hi,

    Hope someone can help me. I want to instal a Hive for a friend.

    I’ve got an Ideal Combi ESP35 with a Danfoss programmer. The wiring doesn’t look quite as it did for mine. Not sure what I need to do / add. Please see the pictures attached

    thanks I’m advance.
     

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  3. oceansoul

    oceansoul

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    Brown and black is your call to heat. Likely brown is live, black is switched live. Or it could be a completely different switching voltage from the boiler. You will also need a power supply for the hive. You best to find the other end of that cable and see if the grey could be used for a neutral for supply.
     
  4. Jackr123

    Jackr123

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    Ok thank you... so going with the hive wiring diagram...

    N - possibly there?
    L - brown
    1
    2
    3 - black
    4
     

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  5. oceansoul

    oceansoul

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    Brown to 1 (com), black (sleeved brown) to 3 (NO). But you need to check what voltage the existing is switching and if a neutral is present. If so then link the brown also to L and the grey sleeved blue to N. It is important to check the boiler wiring or risk damaging the boiler.
     
  6. ericmark

    ericmark

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    I would do a search for name of boiler followed by installation instructions.

    Then see what the standard connections are for the thermostat, there are three common methods, 230 volt, 24 volt and ebus, most common ebus is OpenTherm. Clearly at moment simple on/off.

    Often you can select which option, so check if sealed cover for electrics and if not have a look on how already connected. Many boilers have 24 and 48 volt one side and 230 volt the other, so simple looking which side cable enter may help.
     
  7. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    The Hive base unit should be fitted near the boiler or wiring centre where all required wiring will be available and the Danfoss cable will then be redundant.
     
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  9. muggles

    muggles

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    A shame to fit a Hive to an OpenTherm-compatible boiler, it'd be much more efficient with an OpenTherm stat such as Nest or Honeywell T6 (although that would require you to remove the boiler casing, which you shouldn't do unless you're Gas Safe Registered, but it looks like you might need to go down that road anyway...)
     
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  10. ericmark

    ericmark

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    Since the covers must be removed by anyone doing an EICR I can't see how any cover over the electrics can be requiring a gas safe qualification as by law they must be removed during the EICR.

    As to Nest with OpenTherm v Hive with linked TRV heads not so sure which would be best? Honeywell where both OpenTherm and linked to TRV heads yes very good, but it seems Hive is once TRV heads are included more of a hub than a wall thermostat, keeping the boiler running while any TRV is calling for heat.

    From what I have read to date I will admit Hive does seem to have a problem with wifi links from hub to TRV heads and they have marketed a more powerful hub, and there are reports that the TRV heads are not powerful enough to operate some TRV's. However we don't know if this is due to some thing special within the home, or some unusual TRV head. I know some homes have be plastered using a insulating plaster board which included a foil in it which in essence produced a Faraday cage.

    As said name of boiler followed by installation manual comes up with the PDF showing connections I personally feel heating and ventilating is a specialist subject which is reflected by the name engineer which to me means University trained over the level 3 normal for most tradesmen.

    My first house was gas hot air, cost a lot to run, but it heated the house even, which is likely why so costly to run, as circulated air past single glazed windows must loose heat, second house open plan, again very easy to get a even heat throughout the house, then I had to move back in with my late mother to look after her, and she had a house with loads of internal doors, and bay windows, and I realised central heating was not as straight forward as I had thought. It took me 18 months to get all the settings right, and clearly an heating engineer can't spend 18 months getting it right. Once set up yes it worked well, the programmable TRV heads did a great job, but the biggest improvement was when I fitted a TRV on the hall radiator as well as the wall thermostat, it was it seems not what should be done reading every book, they all said no TRV in room with wall thermostat, but both set to same schedule it was a huge improvement, in essence the wall thermostat only turned off boiler when we had a warm day, or change in schedule. And this is basic what the Hive does, all the wall thermostat does is turn off boiler when all radiators thermostats are satisfied.

    What I don't understand is how the Hive geofencing works, with Nest the house temperature is allowed to drop when all linked phones are out of the house, and no movement is detected in the house, so any visitors walking around will cause heating to stay on. So having the thermostat where it will see people is important. But even before Nest dropped support for Energenie TRV's the Nest told TRV what temperature to run at, it was not the TRV telling Nest, which to me seemed wrong way around.

    So if Hive take a "demand for heat" from the TRV is this over ridden when it detects no phones in house and does it allow house to cool, or do the TRV's override the geofencing? If so it would mean it would not turn off without manual intervention, which defeats the whole idea of geofencing. And does Hive like Nest also have occupancy detection which overrides the geofencing?
     
  11. muggles

    muggles

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    Wasn't aware of any requirement for electricians to remove the cover during an EICR, but from a Gas Safe point of view removing the cover on most modern boilers disturbs the room seal, and such an action requires a flue gas analyser to be used to confirm the integrity of the casing, air intake, & flue exhaust once the cover is refitted. Given that this can only be done by persons with the correct training and equipment, the cover should only be removed and refitted by such trained persons
     
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  12. ericmark

    ericmark

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    I would agree with you, boilers should only be accessed by those trained to work on them, and before the EICR became a requirement for rented houses I would not have dreamed of removing the covers where sealed, but seems English government has other ideas.
     
  13. DetlefSchmitz

    DetlefSchmitz

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    I think you're going over the top again, Eric.
     
  14. ericmark

    ericmark

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    Yes I am, but the point is the EICR was only the installation, not anything which could be considered as in-service electrical equipment or an appliance, there was a separate test for them. But government wants to use there own glossary of terms which does not match up with what we would consider when doing an EICR.
     
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