I'm after advice on a new Central Heating system

[stevehuws]

Hi all,

So my farmhouse renovation is crawling along.

Soon after we bought the house, I found an old inglenook fireplace. This had been bricked up and plastered over, with a small modern fireplace built there.

It housed a gas fire with a gas back boiler. I removed it as I wanted to try and restore the fireplace, and will not be putting it back.

The plumber who removed it recommended either a combi boiler or pressurised tank system to provide hot water at mains pressure. However, my architect was there at the time (to advise on extending) and he was talking about using renewable sources of energy to provide heat and hot water, because of green issues and the rising cost of fossil fuels.

He said that a wood burner with a back boiler feeding a heat store with solar panels would be an option, with a boiler as backup. But my plumber disagreed citing high costs and not being able to provide the pressure that the other systems could. He also was dismissive of the wood stove boiler as it was impossible to control.

I've done some research be reading posts here, but I'm stuck as to what my options are. I'd like to move in in a few weeks, and delays in making these kinds of decisions is driving the OH up the wall.

For me, I wan to be green for enviromental issues and future financial issues.

I'll be cladding all external walls in 30mm+ insulation.

Does any one have experience in installing 'greener' options? How do they compare with traditional systems?

Thanks,

steve

 

[Fredthefly12]

To be frank mate I'd question your Plumbers(?) as to how well he's qualified & if he's a timeserved tradesman, as twinning up heat sources as you discribe is common practice now. There's loads of so-called Plumbers out there that do basic 6 week courses and have a very limited knowledge or experience. They're what's called in the trade CC/CCCs - course cowboys & career change chancers. My advice is get another time served, qualified & experienced Plumber in.

 

[kevplumb]

are you still allowed to post puller

 

[bengasman]

To be frank mate I'd question your Plumbers(?) as to how well he's qualified & if he's a timeserved tradesman, as twinning up heat sources as you discribe is common practice now.

Must be me the. Never seen one yet.

There's loads of so-called Plumbers out there that do basic 6 week courses and have a very limited knowledge or experience. They're what's called in the trade CC/CCCs - course cowboys & career change chancers. My advice is get another time served, qualified & experienced Plumber in.

Time served? No such thing mate.
How long have you been a RGI?

 

[bengasman]

However, my architect was there at the time (to advise on extending) and he was talking about using renewable sources of energy to provide heat and hot water, because of green issues and the rising cost of fossil fuels.

He said that a wood burner with a back boiler feeding a heat store with solar panels would be an option, with a boiler as backup.

Great stuff if you don't mind spending a five-figure sum on your ch.

But my plumber disagreed citing high costs and not being able to provide the pressure that the other systems could. He also was dismissive of the wood stove boiler as it was impossible to control.

There are solid fuel boilers not that work on woodpellets that can be contolled, but I've only ever seen one. I pity the people when it breaks down.
It seems that the plumber looks at practical things, whilst the architect ( who obviously never gained any experience in heating work ) is dreaming of eco friendly stuff.

 

[gremlin16]

Have come across a few of these architects in Gwynedd.
Such nice blokes, always willing to help spend their clients cash.
2 or 3 of these leaches are clever in the way they convince clients to spend on all sorts of alternative energy.

( who obviously never gained any experience in heating work )

strangely they seem to steer customers towards using plumbers that they recomend.
It does not take long to find out who's in who's pocket or who's in who's club.

stevehuws be aware of local architect coz' they will rip you off

 

[Norcon]

Does any one have experience in installing 'greener' options?

Have fitted a few fan assisted batch boilers. There expensive here (in rip off UK) but you can ship direct from Kotly (who I think are in Poland) over the internet for a fraction of the cost. Thats where my next one will be from.
The big WBI 40kw series here is £3k and Kotly are £940.

A twin coil vented cylinder or dhw only thermal store are options with a back boilered stove and in the hands of someone experienced you won't hear any complaining and will just get on with the job.

 

[Fredthefly12]

Can I please firstly state I've been an RGI since about 1985, when CORGI was only voluntory.

The Architect could well have been talking about a wood burning stove, connected directly to a hot water cylinder, but you gas monkies would know about them, I don't think!!!
Or the chap could of talked about all sorts of renewable appliances - heatpumps, wood chip/ log boilers etc, etc. But the so called Plumber is clearly got very little idea or experience & want to fit a combi. Which speaks volumes!!

 

[stevehuws]

Flame wars aside, I think this boils down to (ha!) the question "is there a proper alternative to a combi boiler?".

I took a look at the Kotly site, seems that it's for experts. Although I agree that the prices are impressive, even when accounting for delivery accross most of Europe.

I've contacted a friend of mine who runs a stove suppliers, hopefully he'll have something constructive.

Thanks for all the replies.

steve

 

[hansthebear]

have a look at the baxi ecogen

 

[gasafengineer]

]
Time served? No such thing mate.

No disrespect Bengasman & i don't feel like getting into an argument , but if you were 'time served' you would not be disagreeing with above post , A GOOD TIME SERVED ENGINEER MEANS EVERYTHING , just the non time served guys n gals that feel they've missed out something (EXPERIENCE) along the way will disagree.

Can you honestly say you could put yourself up against a good tradesman with 30 odd years experience? , i doubt it. ...YOU will get better as the years pass on & look back on this with a smile.

 

[bengasman]

Can you honestly say you could put yourself up against a good tradesman with 30 odd years experience?

Easily; I did my first boiler about 20 years ago, but that in itself means zip.
Thousands of wide boys 20,30, 40 years "in the game" that are complete cowboys/muppets.
There isn't a whole lot more to learn after 3 years, unless you are in a very limited job or a limited learner.

 

[bengasman]

I've contacted a friend of mine who runs a stove suppliers, hopefully he'll have something constructive.

Bear in mind that this chap will be biased.
On top of that, all but one of the suppliers I know are as opinionated as they are uninformed. They are shopkeepers, not engineers.

 

[gasafengineer]

There isn't a whole lot more to learn after 3 years, unless you are in a very limited job or a limited learner.

Have you learnt everything there is to know regards domestic plumbing , heating & gas? , i doubt it , we are learning ALL the time , even those TIME SERVED guys n gals like myself.

Do you feel the same regards commercial too.

 

[Agile]

Back to the OP's questions!

Considerable skill is needed to combine wood burners and gas boilers and unvented cylinders both safely and with proper controls.

One of the features of all these so called green systems is that if you have gas then they are all very inefficient in terms of the price paid and the saving achieved.

Most give a return on capital of 2-3% if you are lucky which practically means no pay back period.

Tony