immersion heater and thermostat

[Softus]

I asked you which law you think it is.

Asking about laws would be legal advice im most people's views!

I disagree.

You could ask me which law makes it illegal to speed on a road (that isn't a motorway). I would tell you that it's the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.

That isn't legal advice.

You could ask me which law makes it illegal to work on the gas parts of a gas appliance without being an RGI. I would tell you that it's the The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998. There's a DIYnot sticky topic which tells you the same thing.

That isn't legal advice.

So, if you don't know which law makes it illegal to do what you think the OP did, then what [in the name of all that's holy] makes you think that it's illegal?

 

[Agile]

You could ask me which law makes it illegal to speed on a road (that isn't a motorway). I would tell you that it's the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.

In that case I would give you some ( free ) legal advice to the effect that the most relevant current law on speeding is the Road traffic Act 1988 !

Also to legally work on gas appliances you dont have to "be an RGI" but yoiu have to "be a member of a class of persons" !

You did not answer my question why you dont like to be called by your own name. If you dont like it then you could always change it !

Tony

 

[Softus]

In that case I would give you some ( free ) legal advice to the effect that the most relevant current law on speeding is the Road traffic Act 1988!

FYI, you walked straight into that one. I presume being tediously predictable doesn't bother you.
______________________

It isn't advice to give information that's in the public domain and freely available.

For you to be right on this point you'd have to be right in saying that the answer of "Stockholm", to the question "What's that capital of Norway", is geographical advice. It isn't; it's just information.

ad·vice
–noun
1. an opinion or recommendation offered as a guide to action, conduct, etc.: I shall act on your advice.

Getting back to the original question, which is a very simple one: if you don't know what law makes the OP's action illegal, then what makes you think that it's illegal?

 

[Agile]

The average motorist, unless they work in the legal department of the RAC or AA, is unlikely to know the laws which govern the use and construction of motor vehicles.

Almost all will know that its illegal to exceed the speed limits. Thats all they need to know!

There is an advice service from 118 and other companies whereby they will answer questions for a fee of about £1 regardless of where the answer is obtained. If you are knowledgable you could be on their panel to answer questions for which they pay about 50p for the FIRST correct answer.

You still did not answer my question on why you dont like to be called by your own name. If you dont like it then you could always change it !

Tony

 

[Softus]

Getting back to the original question, which is a very simple one: if you don't know what law makes the OP's action illegal, then what makes you think that it's illegal?

The average motorist...is unlikely to know the laws which govern the use and construction of motor vehicles.

Almost all will know that its illegal to exceed the speed limits. Thats all they need to know!

But you don't know whether or not the use of a rod thermostat, without an independent, manually resettable, overheat thermostat, in an immersion heater installation, is illegal, and yet you're telling people that it is.

Moreover, you're unwilling, or incapable, of admitting that you don't know, and you're unwilling to stick, or incapable of sticking, to the topic.

Frankly, if that's what you referred to as being plumbing advice, then it's a bit sh*t.

 

[Agile]

All that nonsense from someone who is frightened of anyone knowing even your first name?

 

[Softus]

If you don't know what law makes the OP's action illegal, then what makes you think that it's illegal?

Is that wrong?

But you don't know whether or not the use of a rod thermostat, without an independent, manually resettable, overheat thermostat, in an immersion heater installation, is illegal, and yet you're telling people that it is.

Is that wrong?

Moreover, you're unwilling, or incapable, of admitting that you don't know, and you're unwilling to stick, or incapable of sticking, to the topic.

Is that wrong?

 

[Softus]

If you don't know what law makes the OP's action illegal, then what makes you think that it's illegal?

Is that wrong?

No, it isn't wrong, and you won't say what it is that makes you think it's illegal.

But you don't know whether or not the use of a rod thermostat, without an independent, manually resettable, overheat thermostat, in an immersion heater installation, is illegal, and yet you're telling people that it is.

Is that wrong?

No, it isn't wrong, and you won't explain why you're telling people that something is illegal when it isn't.

Moreover, you're unwilling, or incapable, of admitting that you don't know, and you're unwilling to stick, or incapable of sticking, to the topic.

Is that wrong?

No, it isn't wrong, i.e. you won't answer any of the questions that challenge the utterly wrong advice you've given on this topic.

You should stick to posting on topics where you know the answers.

 

[Agile]

All that nonsense from someone who is frightened of anyone knowing even your first name?

Perhaps you have not noticed that I, and most other professionals who post on here, do so under our own names?

Tony

 

[Softus]

...you won't say what it is that makes you think it's illegal.

...you won't explain why you're telling people that something is illegal when it isn't.

...you won't answer any of the questions that challenge the utterly wrong advice you've given on this topic.

 

[Agile]

Funny how you dont like to even admit what your name is !

Just why would any honest and professional person hide his identity?

Tony

 

[Softus]

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=972481#972481

 

[echase]

4 years ago my mother’s cylinder, element and stat were changed. This week she used it for the first time and after 5 or so minutes it stopped working. I found the stat open circuit so changed it, but the same thing happened with the new one. I noticed that the overheat trip had tripped on the original one.

I have now changed it for an old stat without overheat trip and all is OK.

My speculation as to what is happening is:-

This is a flat topped cylinder with a top mounted element, thus the element is completely vertical. When it starts heating, the hot water rises vertically and heats up the top of the element and the metal around the heater head. This gets to more than the trip temperature even though the average temperature across the stat rod is still only 20C or so. Thus it trips prematurely. Most elements are mounted angled or horizontal so the rising hot water is not going to heat the element head so much.

Is my speculation correct and what can be done to cure it within the law? Is there available any alternative sort of element or stat for vertical installations like this?

Another possibility is that the element was seriously bent so it is touching the stat tube near the head or there is a flaw in the element so it's producing a lot of heat near the head.

The old stat I used is about 250mm long and the tube is about 400mm long. Is there any safety issue with using a shorter stat than the tube? Operationally it's only the top part of tank she wants heated so a short stat may be advantageous.

As an aside the reason she used it is because her 4 year old gas condensing boiler failed. It took 4 days for the repairer (the original installer and regular servicer – but with no maintenance contract) to arrive and will be another 3 days to get the spares and return. I repaired the immersion myself in desperation. Is it acceptable to allow an 85 year old lady living along to be left without heating like this and is there any code of practice that the maintenance companies use to give such people priority treatment, despite the obvious rush on repairs due to the current very cold weather?

If anyone tries to pursue me for ‘breaking the law’ I will defend myself on grounds of emergency need.

 

[zaentzpantz]

If so many other appliances went off when the immersion heater failed previously, it would suggest the immersion did not have its own feed and was on the mains ring. Not good.
So presuming poor wiring in the flat/house, it could be that one or more of the connections inside the immersion heater cap were badly made and (relatively) high resistance, so that when the immersion was on, the large current drawn produced heat in the resistive poor connection and heated up the cap.
If you have lots of appliances working off the same ring main it will not make the immersion overheat. If anything a small voltage drop will give it less power.
18" elements are fitted into 27" vertical element assemblies and work fine normally.

 

[kevplumb]

If you have lots of appliances working off the same ring main it will not make the immersion overheat.

the immersion heater should not be wired into the ring in the first place