Improving my 'skimming'

[headworx]

Hi all.

Firstly a big thanks to the forum for giving me the all the tips/tricks I need to 'skim' my walls.

I just want to make sure that I'm doing everything ok as I am currently waiting for the first box room to dry and wont really know if its any good until painted.

Walls were taken back to brick, then dot and dabbed soundboard. All skrimmed up.

The wall dimensions are approx 2m wide each wall, 2.4m high.


I have been mixing up the multi finish laying it on trying not to mess too much with it. Think i do still trowel a bit much tho!

Clean tools, bucket etc, mix 2nd batch up when 1st batch is 'cheesy' and lay that on.

EACH of the 2x coats has taken approx 1 bag of multi (does this sound about right for skimming?)

Then get it level, wait a bit then trowel with a larger trowel. Wait, then get rid of lines. Any corner work I just use the trowel to even up and tidy - I know peeps mention using a brush, is this necessary?

I also dont really use any water either to splash on is this ok? I'm just scared to put too much water on as its boarded so dont want the plaster bubbling off.

On the skrimming side of things, I've done all that days before plastering - the first wall I did, I PVA'd the joint filler, but on the 2nd wall I didnt and cant see any noticable difference - I think as the joint filler is so thin, it don't really soak much moisture out the mix anyhow. What would you recommend? If it's better to PVA before then I will.

I have anglebeaded (the thin 3mm stuff) and used clout nails and filler to hold it in place, made sure level with spirit (bit hit and miss really)- then plastered over that when doing that wall.

I'm gonna leave it a week then do a watered down emulsion coat, then the next day or so paint it properly.

House has no heating in currently so with it drying naturally it hopefully wont crack.

All sound ok?

Will be moving onto bigger walls this time so will be learning quicker
Might try the beading method 1/2 way across if I start having issues with it going off too quick for me.

I did try some board finish (think it goes off quicker than mf) but it was a couple of months past it's use by - Seems to have gone on ok though.

Ceiling will be done last once I've picked a bit more skill up.

Any comments on my method (good or bad) will be appreciated. I've tried reading as much as I can first, then taking all the info on.

Ta.

 

[paul78]

all sounds good, definately on the right path.

I do tend to prefer brush corners but everyone has their own style, as long as it looks good once finished.

ignore the "glass finish" i hear that so much about how people are proud of the glass finish, not needed and a nightmare to paint!

Do friends walls for practice, you get to experiment with different methods then

 

[1john]

Are you saying that you are uding one bag of multi for one coat on one 2m x 2.4m wall? That sounds like it's on really thick, not that I can see it making any difference it's just for a wall of that size I tend to get both coats out of about one bag. That aside it all sounds fine, as for joint filler, have you used this to fill out tapers? If so then you can just apply some multi from the first batch into the tapers and then start at your prefered corner.

 

[headworx]

Yea, was using the joint filler on all edges where one board meets another and for the wall-ceiling which as they are soundboard are tapered (dont think they do normal edge in the knauff one?).

I thought it cracks if you dont use the skrim?


Also I think it was about a bag on the first coat, but deffo less on the 2nd - Having said that I was all in a flummox and rushing so may be less and I did chuck some away I spose! I deffo haven't been putting it on very thick as I can see by sockets etc, it only looks thin. I spose if it was on too thick it would sag?


Oh, also a quick question - How do you peeps do awkward corners that are small etc? I ended up using edge of trowel then waiting to dry a bit then used a filling knife - the trowel is far to big for some bits!!!

The neatening up of sockets etc I do when the mix has dried like putty - Is this right? I found it comes off quite easy that way - Didn't want to have to hack it off when fully dry as dont want it cracking in the wrong place.

One last thing that I've done that I know all you pros will frown on is that when I've been 'final trowelling' the 'fat' I've been getting from the wall get's slapped on the table I'm using and I have on one instance used that to fix a rough bit (only a couple of mm). Couldn't use any mix as it was going off.

So far here's what I've learnt (the hard way):

Make sure floors are swept and free from crud so you dont drag it into the wall when laying on from bottom.

Dont try and use a bit from a new mix to 'fix a bit' ont he wall you did a day before - It goes nasty and gritty lol.

Always make sure tools and bucket/water are clean after every mix.

Dont tidy up the mud thats splashed onto adjacent walls while its wet - the little bits fall and stick onto the nice wall youve just done!

 

[Richard C]

I am currently waiting for the first box room to dry and wont really know if its any good until painted.

Apply a matt white emulsion mist coat, thinned 25-30%, 2/3 coats in quick succession & you’ll soon see if the finish is any good! You can then fill & sand; this will also serve as your priming coat.

I have been mixing up the multi finish laying it on trying not to mess too much with it. Think i do still trowel a bit much tho! Clean tools, bucket etc, mix 2nd batch up when 1st batch is 'cheesy' and lay that on.

It’s difficult to get into a routine but try not to panic. Just lay on & don’t mess with it until you’ve done the whole wall, then go back & flatten off ready for your second coat; but see my comment below! It’s all about speed but if your doing two coats, it’s best to try to get them from the same mix otherwise by the time you’ve cleaned off, mixed up & started again, the first coat will almost certainly be too far gone to give you the benefits of two coats so you won’t gain anything.

The wall dimensions are approx 2m wide each wall, 2.4m high. EACH of the 2x coats has taken approx 1 bag of multi (does this sound about right for skimming?)

Coverage per 25kg bag is 10sq/m @ 2mm thick; with two coats you should be getting 8sq/m pre bag so maybe your second coat is a little thick.

I may get blasted by some for saying this but I’ve said it before; I wouldn’t get too hung up on the two coat thing, if your skimming over nice flat boards, it’s perfectly feasible & OK to do it one coat, I often do!

Then get it level, wait a bit then trowel with a larger trowel. Wait, then get rid of lines. Any corner work I just use the trowel to even up and tidy - I know peeps mention using a brush, is this necessary?

I don’t use a brush on corners, just the trowel; I trowel it up, clean the snots off the adjacent wall/ceiling with a scraper & then polish.

I also dont really use any water either to splash on is this ok? I'm just scared to put too much water on as its boarded so dont want the plaster bubbling off.
Your right not to use too much water; use as little as possible but you will need some. I don’t splash with a bucket/brush either, I use an old ½ litre kitchen cleaner spray bottle & on a 12 x 12 room I will still have a fair bit left in the bottle when finished.

On the skrimming side of things, I've done all that days before plastering - the first wall I did, I PVA'd the joint filler, but on the 2nd wall I didnt and cant see any noticable difference - I think as the joint filler is so thin, it don't really soak much moisture out the mix anyhow. What would you recommend? If it's better to PVA before then I will.

May be best or you may get out if it starts going off quicker than the rest; if it does, it’s important not to keep troweling over it or you will end up with the dreaded tiger stripes. It’s not normally necessary to PVA boards either but it won’t do any harm & it will give you just a little more time.

I have anglebeaded (the thin 3mm stuff) and used clout nails and filler to hold it in place, made sure level with spirit (bit hit and miss really)- then plastered over that when doing that wall.

I use grab adhesive (goes off quicker) & a staple gun to hold beads in place.

I did try some board finish (think it goes off quicker than mf) but it was a couple of months past it's use by - Seems to have gone on ok though.

It does go off quicker than Multi; IMO it’s not worth risking out of date plaster or bags that have been opened for more than a couple of days, especially in winter.

Ceiling will be done last once I've picked a bit more skill up.

Good luck but IMO they are 3x more difficult; & wear glasses, you definitely don’t want a splodge in your eye or you could end up in casualty!

 

[Richard C]

Yea, was using the joint filler on all edges where one board meets another and for the wall-ceiling which as they are soundboard are tapered (dont think they do normal edge in the knauff one?). I thought it cracks if you dont use the skrim?

Don’t use filler on square edge or taper boards; for square edge just tape & force a little Multi well into the mesh tape before skimming over; for taper edge, you need to tape & fill out with Multi first & then skim the entire wall.

Oh, also a quick question - How do you peeps do awkward corners that are small etc? I ended up using edge of trowel then waiting to dry a bit then used a filling knife - the trowel is far to big for some bits!!!

I use a stiff scraper

The neatening up of sockets etc I do when the mix has dried like putty - Is this right? I found it comes off quite easy that way - Didn't want to have to hack it off when fully dry as dont want it cracking in the wrong place.

I assume (& hope) you removing the face plates? Yes, just run a thin scraper around the socket box before it’s set.

So far here's what I've learnt (the hard way):

The hard way is the only way you will learn anything & it never stops; just when you think you’ve got it cracked something will go wrong & you realise you haven’t. As far as dropping it goes, keep at it long enough & you will get to the stage where you drop practically nothing.

 

[headworx]

Cheers for the full reply Richard - Very helpful.

I did Pi$$ coat under the stairs which was the first place I tried skimming. I think I got the mix wrong though as I used 1/2 emulsion, 1/2 water - but it seemed ok after a couple of coats of this - Still yet to paint it properly though.

So are you saying I can Mist coat it before it's gone fully salmon coloured? I did it the weekend and was going to wait a week, but if I can do it sooner without wrecking it, that would certainly be better.

To be honest, I did have to do the one wall I used the board finish on in one coat as it was very high compared to the doorframe so didnt want it flush. The out of date stuff I used was still sealed so maybe thats why it was ok - I had to bags a couple of months out of date - but wont risk it again.

So my 2 coats shold be from the same mix - whoah I will have to speed up lol. Reading all your advice I am obviously putting 2nd coat on too thick - Is it just supposed to take up any 'lows' then?

I just presumed thet would have to be diff mixes so the one underneath will be stiffer so it wil be easier to trowel onto without making more lumps.

Realistically if the first ceiling dont come off very well, i'll pay to get it done properly - Might end up doing that for living room walls too just to get an acceptable finish for painting.

Think I'll continue PVAing the joint filler then as I have had a bit of that tiger thing you mention ovver near one edge so I bet it was that!

Oh and good ideal about the no nails - save waiting round for it dying I spose. I am doing it in stages though on each room so one day is skrimming+filling, next is anglebeading, then next skimming. But good to bear in mind.

Right, I'm off to do a bit more

 

[headworx]

Ooh, another reply - I am popular lol.


Yes, covers off the sockets (and power off).

Now when you say dont use joint filler on boards, how much of a don't is that? Reason I ask is that I have already done this on 90% of the house as I've been trying to prep in stages and didn't want too much to do whilst trying to concentrate on a 1/2 decent finish.

I presume and hope it's not too much of a faux pas, just a little more work my end..it wont crack or anything will it?

Thanks again all

 

[Richard C]

So are you saying I can Mist coat it before it's gone fully salmon coloured?

No definitely not; 7-10 days this time of year.

So my 2 coats shold be from the same mix - whoah I will have to speed up lol. Reading all your advice I am obviously putting 2nd coat on too thick - Is it just supposed to take up any 'lows' then?

Yes the idea is to slow it all down to give you more time to get a decent, flat finish but that’s of little use if the first coat has already gone too far; as I said, don’t get too hung up on the two coats thing over nice flat boards.

 

[Richard C]

Now when you say dont use joint filler on boards, how much of a don't is that? Reason I ask is that I have already done this on 90% of the house as I've been trying to prep in stages and didn't want too much to do whilst trying to concentrate on a 1/2 decent finish.

I presume and hope it's not too much of a faux pas, just a little more work my end..it wont crack or anything will it?

It won’t matter too much but filler is very soft compared to finish & your just creating extra work. With taper boards, I mix up just enough to fill out the tapers level but only rough, I then mix up the main skim & just go over the lot; by that time the fill coat is already firming up.

 

[jrplastering]

when you say it wnt crack with the joint filler you have put tape on first yeah?
for small tight angles i have a wide variety of little filling knifes and what not but what is very handy is to keep a few old credit, debit or store cards as these can be cut down to what ever size of shape you want

 

[headworx]

yup the adhesive mesh skrim tape then the filler in quick succession.

Ah good idea with the diff size knifes and credit cards lol. Shame Ive just desroyed one credit card - Looks like my old gym card can be sacrificed, maybe the blood donor one next. Ta.

 

[stevethespreader]

its a waste of time and effort filling in the tapers before you skim theres no need just skim as normal and the tapers disappear , also if you want to make progress with your corners get a twitcher (an angle trowel) for when you progress from 1 wall to 2 walls or even 3 and 4 walls, a spread that cant use a twitcher is useless

 

[jrplastering]

how bout one that cant bend his elbow mate hahaha

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

This is the method I use when plastering a boarded wall.
Joints taped up with nylon scrim.
*one bag(25kg) of multi covers 10sqm
*one bag of multi to one standard bucket of water.
*water in mixing bucket first, then pour plaster in until powered is just heaping over top of water, then mix up, add more plaster a bit at a time until bag is empty, all mixed up through with no lumps.
*slightly wet down ligger board, hawk and trowel
*mix on to ligger
*then spread the plaster on wall starting at top left to right (right handed) in motions of three, leaving a thickness of about 2mm. Then up from middle to top again motions of three, then bottom to middle motions of three.
*once area is covered, flatten and fill
*tools cleaned and wet down
*mix second coat 1/2 (25kg) bag for 10sqm
*half bag to just over half a bucket of water, this mix wants to be a little wetter.
*mix up as with first coat
*spread again starting at top left to right (right hander) 1mm thickness, motions of three.
*you can then again go middle to top and bottom to middle, motions of three. or you can go bottom to top.
*once second coat has covered area, flatten and fill.
*clean tools
*wait for it to take
*cup of tea and garibaldi/custard cream or hob nob if it's Fridays and chill
*once taken, wet trowel wall, taking out any imperfections.
*clean tools
*you can dry trowel and polish if you wish, but if the surface is going to be painted, I find the paint takes better after the wet troweling.