innovation in electrics

[messimagician]

Does anyone else find that the innovation in electrics is much slower than most other fields ?

Only Wago and Ashley have MF junction boxes, you now have wago connectors but what about sockets and switches that have not changed in years, the talk of over tightening or loose connections is an issue, would it not be a good idea to have Wago type spring connectors on sockets and switches for fast and ease terminations ? maybe even on CU's aswell

 

[JohnW2]

Does anyone else find that the innovation in electrics is much slower than most other fields ?

In terms of the technology, that's fairly true, at least in conceptual terms. In the last 50 years or so, I would say that the appearance of RCDs (as well, of course, as the appearance of PVC cables) is about the only major conceptual 'innovation'. Even MCBs are not all that much of a conceptual innovation, since they do the same conceptual job as a fuse.

Only Wago and Ashley have MF junction boxes, you now have wago connectors but what about sockets and switches that have not changed in years, the talk of over tightening or loose connections is an issue, would it not be a good idea to have Wago type spring connectors on sockets and switches for fast and ease terminations ? maybe even on CU's aswell

That may come. However, although we have plenty of experience of screw terminals which have been in service, and 'not touched', for many decades (and hence have some idea of their long-term 'failure rate'), we really have no certainty about how spring connections are going to perform in the very long term. 'Accelerated testing' is all very well, but it does not compare with observing over many decades!

Kind Regards, John

 

[AndyPRK]

They have been introduced in the low current applications. (Lights, shaver sockets)

This will give us some real life feedback, before they are used in higher current applications (not that I'm in favor of that)

 

[stillp]

They've been around in medium current applications (<63A) for several decades. Properly designed and constructed, they are far more reliable than screw terminals.

 

[JohnW2]

They've been around in medium current applications (<63A) for several decades. Properly designed and constructed, they are far more reliable than screw terminals.

Interesting. In what areas/contexts? I certainly have seen extremely few in items relating to domestic electrical installations.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

You can get trunking where you can simply plug in the sockets and the maintenance free connector yes old hat I was using them back in the 1980's so not new. Main change we can now also remove wires.

The ELCB-c has replaced the ELCB-v and we have started to use electronics to stop them tripping with random spikes.

But regulations do hamper new inventions. The whole idea of power track was a big thing in the 1970's

Habitat was selling it very quickly before it went out of fashion. I fitted the stuff in my kitchen and was very proud of the whole idea but where do those plugs come in the list?

BS 1363 (fuses to BS 1362), BS 546 (fuses, if any, to BS 646), BS 196, BS EN 60309-2 but

553.1.4 Every socket-outlet for household and similar use shall be of the shuttered type and, for an a.c. installation. shall preferably be of a type complying with BS 1363.

means it is near impossible for any one to invent a better socket which can be used in the UK. We can get plug in adaptors

but hard wired

simply do not comply. These

at least in hotels would be a real boom but we have regulations.

B&Q gets into enough trouble already without stocking sockets like that. I would agree at 450 mm from ground too likely that children would play but at 1200 mm is there really a problem. OK no shutters but with RCD protection is it really required?

But while we have such strict regulations any enterprising firm is going to have a hard time marking their product. Power track for lighting is OK but for power simply does not comply. Even industrial power track often installed where ordinary persons can't reach.

 

[JohnW2]

You can get trunking where you can simply plug in the sockets and the maintenance free connector yes old hat I was using them back in the 1980's so not new.

We're talking about the termination of conductors into terminals, not plug/socket etc. connections. I also wonder what 'maintenance free' connector you are referring to.

Kind Regards, John

 

[stillp]

They've been around in medium current applications (<63A) for several decades. Properly designed and constructed, they are far more reliable than screw terminals.

Interesting. In what areas/contexts? I certainly have seen extremely few in items relating to domestic electrical installations.

Kind Regards, John

Industrial control products.

 

[333rocky333]

!980 merlingerin , mcbs had screw terminals and you used a short 6mm cable from that to the busbar
The busbar although not pushfit, you opened it using a screwdriver pushed in the slot, inserted wire in the hole then removed the screwdriver and it sprung closed

 

[JohnW2]

!980 merlingerin , mcbs had screw terminals and you used a short 6mm cable from that to the busbar ... The busbar although not pushfit, you opened it using a screwdriver pushed in the slot, inserted wire in the hole then removed the screwdriver and it sprung closed

Does that perhaps count as "the worst of both worlds"?! - with both a screw terminal and a sprung one in the path from MCB to busbar, there is scope for those who have concerns about either to be less than fully happy ... not to mention the general concern that everyone may have about an 'unnecessary joint'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[deadshort]

Best design ever for a consumer unit = 1940'S innovation ! two terminal screws for each fuse carrier, no brainer and great design What the hell happened ? We now have Tupperware enclosures and bendy bus bars !

That's progress apparently


DS

 

[ericmark]

1980 I went to work for a Dutch firm in Algeria and we had grey square connectors which would take 4 wires which you simply pushed in. I would guess German manufacture but could have been French.

As time has gone on these maintenance free connectors have appeared more and more specially stuff made in Germany but point is they have been around for at least 35 years so hardly new.

The Canalis trunking system is fast. What one has to decide is if it's worth the price. I used it for lighting and I was able to light a new building in a weekend where with old stile it would have taken a couple of weeks. For my boss it was not having to stop production and getting new machines running faster plus an added advantage when it needed working on the unplug system meant we could work on one light without turning off the rest. But in a new build not sure it pays?

With industry time is money and firms are willing to pay out

this is very expensive Powerlink Plus does allow one to quickly alter an office but again as to if worth the money is questionable.

Clearly it would not be used in a private house. I remember

Untitled

• ericmark
• 6 Dec 2008
• 34

these RCD's and they seemed very good although expensive seem to remember around £250 each and the idea of auto resetting RCD's did appeal until the regulations changed and made it so only allowed in special locations like remote pumping stations.

So the stuff is made it just it costs and regulations don't make its use easy.

 

[JohnW2]

Best design ever for a consumer unit = 1940'S innovation ! two terminal screws for each fuse carrier, no brainer and great design What the hell happened ? We now have Tupperware enclosures and bendy bus bars ! That's progress apparently

Quite so. I was largely brought up on Wylex Standard CUs - two screws per termination, and those screws going into very solid bits of brass, and bus bars which I, for one, probably could not have bent without some fairly heavy tools - in general, bautiful bits of high-class engineering! Mind you, I suspect that, in 'real' terms, they probably cost a lot more than the modern Tupperware versions!

Kind Regards, John

 

[westie101]

I was largely brought up on Wylex Standard CUs

And just about every bit of them made in the factory in Manchester.
An enjoyable visit as a trainee many years ago

 

[sparkwright]

I have often thought how time saving and possibly more electrically sound it would be to have Wago type connections on accessories.

Or even telephone connection-like terminals so you don't have to strip the wire.

I suppose one problem would be allowing for say 4 wires at each terminal, as can sometimes be the case.

Also the terminals would have to be able to accept 2.5, 4.0, 6.0 even 10.0 mm wires. Or even a mixture of those sizes. Because as we all know, all those sizes can be found behind sockets.

With this in mind, it's a bit of a non-starter.

While we are on the subject of innovations, I would like to see a single socket and switched fused spur on one double plate.

This would have to be constructed in the same manner of a double socket, so presumably there wouldn't be any difference electrically.

I gather such a product did exist once (POSSIBLY made by Nettle, not too sure) but I think the fused spur feed was seperate to the socket, so would count as two units rather than one.

The point of my innovation is the accessory could be fitted on a non-fused spur from a ring circuit.

I'll phone MK.