Installation of lo carbon fan- electrician or builder?

[Tingly]

hi there
I need to install two lo carbon ventilators
One is for the kitchen - it will be fitted into a ceiling and vented out via a tile in a pitched roof oitside the kitchen
One is for a bathroom and will go on a wall to the outside

Do i need an electrician or a builder or both to do this please- i have no idea
And what do you think i might have to pay ?

Many thanks

 

[mwatsonxx]

An electrician should be able to do the job. The cost could be anything, but estimates/quotes are free, you only have to ask.

It is a lot easier/cheaper to vent through a wall than a ceiling and pitched roof. Can the kitchen extract go though a wall or window pane?

 

[ericmark]

I am aware of a "need" to install bathroom extractors, however not sure where the "need" comes from in the kitchen? I have never been a scheme member, so I don't know what "compliance" covers? The building regulations as split into parts, Part F - Ventilation, Part P - Electrics, Part J - Combustion appliances and fuel storage systems, finally Part L - Conservation of fuel and power. All these have a bearing on fitting an extractor fan.

So where gas is burnt you need to remove the fumes, (part f) and also you do not want in doing so to draw in fumes from some thing else (part j) and pump hot air in and clearly cold air will replace it unless a heat exchanger is used (part l) and the electrics used must be safe (part p).

So bathroom easy, all down to if windows open or not and that decides is simply from lights, or a PIR or a push button, and I am sure most tradesmen could do it, but since likely a special location likely needs a scheme member in other words an electrician.

With no gas kitchen is also easy, but with gas likely needs ducting to gas hob, with distances being strictly observed and also the ducting must not be a fire risk, Oh maybe I should have included Part B - fire safety.

So what we are asking is which trades have working knowledge of Parts B, F, J, L and P? Plus the skills to use core drills and fit roof vents. The most likely jack of all trades is the electrician however it is common to sub contract, so you could employ the local kitchen fitters who in turn sub contractor to roofer and builder and electrician. So in real terms take your pin and stick it in yellow pages it really does not matter who is the major contractor they will sub contract as required.

 

[Tingly]

An electrician should be able to do the job. The cost could be anything, but estimates/quotes are free, you only have to ask.

It is a lot easier/cheaper to vent through a wall than a ceiling and pitched roof. Can the kitchen extract go though a wall or window pane?

Hi there

No as all the wall is tiled floor to ceiling- thanks for the suggestion though

 

[EFLImpudence]

All Part F requires is adequate ventilation for people in the building and

Part J adequate supply of air to combustion appliances and discharge to outside air.

 

[Tingly]

I am aware of a "need" to install bathroom extractors, however not sure where the "need" comes from in the kitchen? I have never been a scheme member, so I don't know what "compliance" covers? The building regulations as split into parts, Part F - Ventilation, Part P - Electrics, Part J - Combustion appliances and fuel storage systems, finally Part L - Conservation of fuel and power. All these have a bearing on fitting an extractor fan.

So where gas is burnt you need to remove the fumes, (part f) and also you do not want in doing so to draw in fumes from some thing else (part j) and pump hot air in and clearly cold air will replace it unless a heat exchanger is used (part l) and the electrics used must be safe (part p).

So bathroom easy, all down to if windows open or not and that decides is simply from lights, or a PIR or a push button, and I am sure most tradesmen could do it, but since likely a special location likely needs a scheme member in other words an electrician.

With no gas kitchen is also easy, but with gas likely needs ducting to gas hob, with distances being strictly observed and also the ducting must not be a fire risk, Oh maybe I should have included Part B - fire safety.

So what we are asking is which trades have working knowledge of Parts B, F, J, L and P? Plus the skills to use core drills and fit roof vents. The most likely jack of all trades is the electrician however it is common to sub contract, so you could employ the local kitchen fitters who in turn sub contractor to roofer and builder and electrician. So in real terms take your pin and stick it in yellow pages it really does not matter who is the major contractor they will sub contract as required.

Hi there

Thanks for the reply- very useful and comprehensive
The need in the kitchen is because i may have tenants in the future and as some of them tend to none to keen on ventilation it would seem, the most prudent thing seems to be an extractor vent . There are no gas appliances in the kitchen though

Thanks again

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

Hi there

No as all the wall is tiled floor to ceiling- thanks for the suggestion though

I don't think I'd let that stop me. I've certainly put vents through tiles. It's easier if you make the hole first but it can't be impossible.

 

[Tingly]

Really- would it be better through a wall then?

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

Eliminating runs of ducting is always a good thing. Ducting reduces flow rates and can cause condensation problems in the duct.

 

[Tingly]

Great- thats clarified things- Very much appreciated

 

[ericmark]

If at some point you replace the extractor fan for a heat recovery unit then having a hole through the wall makes it a lot easier, with the cheap heat recovery units the heat exchanger is built into the pipe that goes through the wall.

My mothers house has air bricks and vents everywhere, so they is no problem with gas fire, father-in-law every place were air could get in seems to be sealed, triple glazing, doors with seals and two doors to get out of the back of house, in his house even a tumble drier could drag in fumes from the living room gas fire. A really unhealthy house no real fresh air.

As I walk around the estate I see bathroom after bathroom with non opening windows, I will guess most done by the same firm, it cost more to have an opening window so many did not have one, however then the bathroom fan has to be so that it can be turned on without the light, for an owner occupier even if not exactly what the rules say, who cares, but with tenants it really does have to be right.

We hear comments like the regulations are not retrospective which may be correct, but in my estate every house had opening windows when built, where they don't and there is no fan independent from lights it is because some one has modified without following regulations. And my sons house every air brick and vent had been filled with expanding foam.

As the land lord really you should be able to rely on the compliance or completion certificate, but I have seen so many houses with non opening bathroom windows without a means to run fan independent from lights I wonder if the certificates are worth their salt?

 

[Tingly]

Funny enough i have two large bathroom windows both which open- and kitchen ones- but there is a trndancyfor tenants not to ventilate unfortunately -as a money saving method

 

[ericmark]

Funny enough i have two large bathroom windows both which open- and kitchen ones- but there is a trndancyfor tenants not to ventilate unfortunately -as a money saving method

It may seem odd, but since you don't "Need" a fan under building regulations you can wire it to come on with the lights, however fans do fail all too often, so to ensure the occupants can used the lights if the fan fails you need a method of isolating it, so tendency is once the building inspector has gone to switch off the fan at isolator as the noise wakes people as the toilet is used at night, the other option is not to turn on the light which can in turn result in urine on the floor, which is likely to cause you even more problems. So really no help having a fan pros and cons cancel each other out. You said Lo Carbon so are you talking about Vent-Axia Lo-Carbon tempra p heat recovery fan if so then a completely different unit, and can't see how you could vent through the roof?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Where is this rule regarding whether or not the fan may be wired to come on with the light?

 

[JohnW2]

Where is this rule regarding whether or not the fan may be wired to come on with the light?

I was also wondering that - and, from the viewpoint of 'rules' (I suspect we may well be taking about an Approved Doc!), it seems a bit of a 'devil and deep blue sea' situation. Whilst having it separate from the light (separately, manually, switched) means that it can be switched on without the light (e.g. during daytime), the risk is that it may never be turned on. With operation from the light, at least the fan will be switched on sometimes!

Mind you, I suppose that having a fan which is never switched on is no worse than having an 'openable window' which is never opened!!

Kind Regards, John