Installing a 30A socket for a range cooker

[AndyColeman]

Hi,

We are having our kitchen gutted an replaced in a couple of weeks and as a part of that we are having a range cooker installed. This means we need to have 30A cooker switch installed as the current built in cooker is just using a 13A socket.

Idealy I would like an electrician to do the job but firstly getting hold of one is tricky and secondly I am a bit concerned that I am going to get hit with unnecessary work.

Some background. Our house is a typical 1930s semi. We have not done anything substantial with the wiring since we moved in 10 years ago. For some odd reason we have two consumer units in the house. Most of the house is connected to a more modern consumer unit but for some reason the wiring on one side of the kitchen is wired up to an older consumer unit located in the larder.

I have a couple of electricians coming around tomorrow (hopefuly) and I want to be prepared so that I know what does and what does not need to be done. One of the electricians was telling me on the phone that he would need to give a certificate for the work and so he would need to make sure the wiring in the house is safe. Now this is where I am getting a bit worried. For the sake of just installing the cooker switch we end up having to do a load of other work.

Now one thing I would be happy for them to do is remove the old consumer unit and connect everything up to the one unit. But besides that what is the likelyhood they are going to say we need to rewire the house? Is there something I can look for to determine if the wiring is safe?

If it comes to it how much work would be involved in wiring up the cooker swicth myself? Is there regulations that mean I can't do this?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Andy

 

[sparkticus]

You absolutely should get a certificate. An Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC) You should make sure the electrician is registered for self certification but that is not the only criteria. You also need to check past customer references. You can check registration at www.competentperson.co.uk but I stress again that is not the only requirement - check with at least two past customers.

As part of installing a new cooker service there will need to be some safety checks and that is mainly to do with the main earth bonding to water, gas oil services etc. Also unless the new wiring will be totally buried at least 50mm in your walls or under the floors or installed in an earthed conduit of some type then you will need an RCD at the consumer unit. If you are happy to have a new consumer unit fitted then that will take care of the RCD and the only significant open items may be that of the main earth bonding.

 

[sparkticus]

If it comes to it how much work would be involved in wiring up the cooker swicth myself? Is there regulations that mean I can't do this

You can do any and all wiring in your own property. BUT you must do it in full compliance with the building regulations and the wiring regulations. If you choose to do it your self then you must inform building control before commencing work then have them check it after completion. Many Local Area Building Control (LABC) offices want to see test results on an electrical certificate. If you are not VERY familiar with document P of the building regulations and the current 17th edition of the wiring regulations then it is unlikely they will pass your wiring and you will have to redo what is not compliant and have it re-inspected.

 

[riveralt]

Many Local Area Building Control (LABC) offices want to see test results on an electrical certificate. If you are not VERY familiar with document P of the building regulations and the current 17th edition of the wiring regulations then it is unlikely they will pass your wiring and you will have to redo what is not compliant and have it re-inspected.

Just to be clear the Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC) is worth nothing, asolutely nothing, without a Schedule of Inspections and a Schedule of Test results.
No LABC that I know will accept the EIC without the other two documents.

 

[sparkticus]

Just to be clear the Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC) is worth nothing, asolutely nothing, without a Schedule of Inspections and a Schedule of Test results.
No LABC that I know will accept the EIC without the other two documents.

That is correct.

 

[AndyColeman]

Hi,
Thanks for all the advice. Sounds like I should not be doing this myself. My main worry is what the electrician is going to discover when the check our electrics. If there are problems are they likely to be easily resolved? I guess this is hard to say when you can't see the electrics yourself. What I don't want to have to face is a full rewire of the house as that would be a major piece of work.

Thanks
Andy

 

[sparkticus]

Very few people have their house rewired for the fun of it. You either need a rewire or you don't. If your existing wiring has good insulation resistance, the wiring is in good physical condition, the wiring is the right size (CSA) for the loading, includes circuit protective conductors (earth conductors) and is functional for your needs then there would be no reason to rewire.

If an electrician tells you that you need a rewire then you need to ask for evidence of why it is required. When the electrician visits to provide a quote make sure that you tell him/her right upfront that you hope that a rewire is not required because all you want is a cooker circuit, possibly a new consumer unit and anything that is essential such as main protective bonding - which may be in place already.

 

[ericmark]

There are many ways to do the same work. For example with my parents house which really needs a full rewire when installing a new kitchen a sub-main was installed supplying just the kitchen.

Much will depend on design of the house. Using SWA or Ali-tube cable may remove the need for the RCD but running SWA internal is no easy task.

It is very easy to say you must now "XYZ" where really it's rarely cut and dried and there is likely some other way that the regulations can be satisfied. However any registered electrician is not so much looking at laws and regulations but at what his scheme operator will allow. In the main it amounts to the same but not all the time.

It is however a problem getting work done which will comply when the house has not been up-graded in years. Every 10 years we should get the house inspected and the report did grade non compliance into 4 groups. This would show 1 Dangerous stuff. 2 Stuff which really needed to be corrected but not as urgent. 3 Stuff not tested. 4 Stuff which no longer complies but was OK with previous regulations.

The 4th group was to let you know what may need upgrading before any extras can be added. It is handy to know before deciding on new equipment what will likely be required.

Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR) replaces The Periodic Inspection Report (PIR). And now there are only three classes with 3 and 4 being replaced with Code C3 (Improvement recommended).

Although in some ways I can see why it was changed in other ways it seems wrong. For example Code C3 for not enough sockets seems odd and Code C2 for missing label where absence of barriers inside a consumer unit or bonding connections to a boiler pipework have no code.

However these reports do help in working out what will be needed when adding anything.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Just as an aside - the title of this topic is "Installing a 30A socket for a range cooker".

Installing a socket (actually it would be a 32A one) might be something you'd like to consider, if there'll be enough clearance behind the cooker, as then you'd be able to pull it all the way out if ever you needed to, by unplugging it.

 

[AndyColeman]

Just wanted to follow up in case anyone is interested. I had two electricans booked to come around on Saturday to give me a quote, one did not turn up but the other guy did and he seems to realy know his stuff. We went through various issues with the wiring in the house which comes down mainly to the lack of bonding. We also have three sockets on skirting boards whch will need to be moved.

I felt comfortable enough with him to almost give him the go-ahead on the spot. There are also some other niggles I have wth the electrics in the house which he is also going to sort out.

Good to know that there are some electricians out there that take a pride in their work and do the right thing.

Thanks
Andy

 

[sparkticus]

Good to know that there are some electricians out there that take a pride in their work and do the right thing.

Happy to see that, thanks for the update.

 

[AndyColeman]

To add a further update had another electrician in today and it was an interesting contrast in approach. Where the first guy spent about 45 minutes with me going through all sorts of stuff this guy spent only 5 minutes and just sugested that he put in another small CU next to the existing one dedicated to the coooker. I guess there is nothing wrong with this solution as I think someone else in this thread may have also sugested that. No doubt his quote will come in cheaper than the first guy but still want to go with the first one just on the basis that I was more comfortable with his approach.

Actualy one thing that does confuse me still is that the reason the first guy reckons I need the additional work is so that he can issue the certificate and that if anything else goes wrong in the house he is covered i.e. I am not going to sue him if something unrelated does go wrong.

The second guy also said he could issue a certificate so I am wondering what the scope is for these things? Do they cover the house as a whole or just the work done? I am assuming the latter.

Thanks
Andy

 

[sparkticus]

Actualy one thing that does confuse me still is that the reason the first guy reckons I need the additional work is so that he can issue the certificate and that if anything else goes wrong in the house he is covered i.e. I am not going to sue him if something unrelated does go wrong.

The second guy also said he could issue a certificate so I am wondering what the scope is for these things? Do they cover the house as a whole or just the work done? I am assuming the latter.

Anyone who is registered for self certification (www.competentperson.co.uk) will have the option of providing their self certification scheme insurance backed warranty (in fact they are strongly encouraged to do so) This covers compliance issues usually for a period of six years. Note, compliance issues only, not failure of cables switches, sockets etc. Compliance issues related to where an electrician may not have complied with current wiring regulations (BS7671) The maximum liability tends to be £25K per job. In addition to that, an individual person/company must have liability insurance to cover mishaps while the work is being carried out (putting a foot through a ceiling for example) In addition to that, some individuals/companies hold insurance which covers them for warranty liabilities, liquidated loses etc, etc but as far as I know that part is not mandatory. In fact, the only mandatory insurance (as far as I know and I may be wrong) is the public liability.

Typical costs

Scheme provided insurance backed warranty: Under £5/job
£2M Liability Insurance £150 - £2000 year (risk dependant)
Additional insurance £ depends upon size of company and type of work they do.


Bottom line, if the electrician is registered for self certification (and can prove that) and you have two good references from past customers then that is probably the best you can hope for and will most likely be fine. It is important that you check their self certification status and get the references.

 

[sparkticus]

Actualy one thing that does confuse me still is that the reason the first guy reckons I need the additional work is so that he can issue the certificate and that if anything else goes wrong in the house he is covered i.e. I am not going to sue him if something unrelated does go wrong.

The second guy also said he could issue a certificate so I am wondering what the scope is for these things? Do they cover the house as a whole or just the work done? I am assuming the latter.

In terms of issuing a certificate, that is mandatory. But unless the electrician can self-certify you need to involve building control. That is why it is easier to use an electrician who is registered for self certification www.competentperson.co.uk

The certificate is not an insurance as such, it is evidence that the work done has been completed, inspected and tested in compliance with wiring regulations. It applies only to the work done but does include any essential safety mechanisms such as main earth bonding etc.