INSTALLING LED DOWNLIGHTS:

[RONCHAM]

Hi - I have a ceiling light with just one twin and earth cable connected to it - there is no ceiling rose or junction box nearby. I assume this cable is the neutral and switch return wires and that the red wire is the switch return. I wish to install 6 downlighters and intend to loop this cable in and out of connectors, with flex off to each downlighter. Does it actually matter if in fact the black wire is the switch return but I wire it to the neutral in the connectors?? I will appreciate any advice.

PS Strangely the cable above heads off from the ceiling light in the opposite direction from the switch which controls the light. It's difficult to follow its route but I assume it ends up at the switch.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Could you please elaborate?
You have twin and earth at existing fitting. I assume a red (switch line), a black(neutral) and a green/yellow (CPC/earth).
If so what are talking about when you mention black being switch return?
You first need to establish the core colours are doing what is being assumed of them?

 

[ericmark]

Hi - I have a ceiling light with just one twin and earth cable connected to it - there is no ceiling rose or junction box nearby. I assume this cable is the neutral and switch return wires and that the red wire is the switch return.

Read this and re-write so there is no ambiguity, I can't work out it out?

I wish to install 6 downlighters and intend to loop this cable in and out of connectors.

Do you mean a junction box, it is not permitted to use connector block without some protection, i.e. some form of box, the only exception to the rule saying you need a tool is the ceiling rose, their historic use has given them an exemption.

with flex off to each downlighter. Does it actually matter if in fact the black wire is the switch return but I wire it to the neutral in the connectors?? I will appreciate any advice.

Again you need to read through your post, line and neutral should be identified, use of coloured sleeves or numbered sleeves is permitted, but you do need to use something.

PS Strangely the cable above heads off from the ceiling light in the opposite direction from the switch which controls the light. It's difficult to follow its route but I assume it ends up at the switch.

Never assume, I have seen some odd wiring in my time, likely the ceiling lamp has been moved in the past, and some where some one has installed a junction box and the standard pair or three cables go into the box and come out as a single cable to your lamp. The problem was pre-1966 it was common not to earth lamps and where alterations have been done although there may be an earth wire it may not be connected to anything. One should always test the earth loop impedance, (ELI) but when one is alerted to something odd going on it is specially important to test.

 

[RONCHAM]

Thanks for all the advice and comments.
I apologise for any ambiguity but I was simply trying to describe my existing situation. Surely one of the wires going to the light fitting is the switch return? - and either goes off to a junction box (which I can't see) and thence to the light switch, or goes directly to the switch? Like PrenticeBoyofDerry I also assumed it was the red wire but I have not established that with certainty - which is why I said it could be the black wire. If the red wire is the switch return I presume a coloured sleeve is not required? The connectors I intend to use are the Click Flow type - are these permissible? My main question was - do I need to establish whether red or black is the switch return? - can I not simply loop onwards to each downlight?? I should add that I have lived here for twenty years without any electrical problems but I do not know when the house was last re-wired.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Click flow are fine, providing they are left accessible for inspection, testing and maintenance.
It would be foolish not to establish the purpose of each core colour.
There could be junctions/joint boxes within the ceiling void, but you may also have a situation where the loop is made at the switch.
And it is not a switch return, it is a switch line. The conductor comes live from the switch, not visa versa!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Hi - I have a ceiling light ... I wish to install 6 downlighters

Why 6 lights to replace 1?

Is that because:

a) the room is huge, and one light is totally inadequate?

or

b) the lights you want to fit are so useless at actually lighting up the room that you need 6 times as many of them?

 

[RONCHAM]

Hi -

Actually it's neither a) nor b)! Partly more ambiguity on my part - the room in question is a fairly small kitchen about 9'6" x 6'6" (apologies for Imperial units) with a small alcove at one end. The existing light is actually a 4-way bar light but only has a single connection as mentioned - it has 4 LEDs equivalent to approx. 160W. This is by no means inadequate but I thought a more uniform distribution of lighting would be preferable and I also thought that downlighters would be neater and less intrusive.


I had power once but it demanded that I be corrupt. So I relinquished it.