Installing Sockets and wiring.. few questions please!

[Redsquirrel]

Hello All

Been a lurker for a little while but now that I actually have a issue thought i should sign up and post a question!

The story..

I am doing extensive work to my living room. This includes adding a new ring circuit to the living room, as there has always only ever been one plug socket for the room!

I had a electrician in, explained how exactly he would be doing the job and gave me a quote. Unfourtunatly he never got back to me, despite a couple of phone calls.

I've helped wire plugs in the past etc so its not like im completly new to all this so thought i would have a go myself.

Following what he told me he was going to do, i have cut out all the holes in the wall for the sockets and even wires a few of them up.

However, i have now been told that I am not supposed to (or can not?) have the wires running behind the skirting (I chased out the wall). Is this really the case? I have concrete floor.

Secondly, the wires need to get across from one wall to the next - i was told by the electrician that he would chisel up the concrete so the wires can lay under the ground (and cover over) . Again, is this ok?

Lastly (i think!) is there a minimum height the plugs should be? I checked around and personally felt the height i went for was okay - they were inline with the other socket (and dead socket) in the room, if not a bit higher. I believe i went about 11 inches above the floor (top edge).

Here are some photos..

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• Redsquirrel
• 6 Mar 2012
• 1

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• Redsquirrel
• 6 Mar 2012
• 1

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• Redsquirrel
• 6 Mar 2012
• 1

I will obviously get a proper electrician in to check it and hook it upto the consumer unit.

Until i find out if what i am doing is okay, im going to give it a rest.

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[riveralt]

If you have been a lurker for a while then you will know that you cannot do what you are proposing to do without either employing an electrician who is a member of a competent persons scheme or if you do it yourself notifying your Local Authority Building Control and paying their fee before you start the work.
An electrician cannot just come in at the end and connect up to the consumer unit, test the circuits, notify the LABC etc without being fully involved in the process from the beginning.
If you do intend to do it yourself then you will need to design the circuit to show to the LABC that you know what you are doing. So some questions (there are many others) you need to answer..
Are you wiring a ring final circuit or a radial final circuit? Because your photographs suggest both.
What size and type of cable are you using?
What is the MCB size?
Is the circuit RCD protected?
Where are your safe zones? (behind the skirting is not one of them) - not sure what the position is regarding channeling into the concrete floor but I would imagine you would need some form of mechanical protection.
For concrete floors I would normally channel up the wall to the ceiling void.
Height of sockets is not an issue - have them as high or low as you want they just need to be accessible.

My advice would be to get three quotes from electricians and let one of them complete the work for you.

 

[Redsquirrel]

Thanks for your reply.

I was unaware that i would have to notify the local authority building control - an electrician would surely only have to do this if he can not sign off his own work?

From what i was aware (I have spent a long term researching) a competent person may perform the work but must not be allowed to connect to the consumer unit without having it inspected by an electrician first and running tests.

It was a ring circuit. I was using 2.5mm twin & earth cable. The circuit is RCD protected.

It is also not possible to go up into the ceiling really on the situation.

I am just a bit perplexed why a fully qualified electrician would say he would run the cables behind the skirting and into the concrete floor - and no mention was made of alerting LABC.

I will get more quotes if required.

 

[Taylortwocities]

It is a new circuit and that is notifiable.
Additions to existing circuits are not notifiable provided we are not talking about kitchen, bathroom, etc.
If you can find a way to extend an existing ring final then you'll be out of notification territory - but you'll still need to do it in accordance with Wiring Regulations.

Your cable can go behind the skirting but only vertically under the socket itself. I think that is what you meant, per the above, you MUST NOT run the cable round the room behind the skirting itself.

Once you get to the floor then you'll need to find a safe route across the floor to the other sockets. If you are going in the floor I would want to see the cable at least 50mm from the surface and run in conduit/tube of some sort before the floor is made good.

This is to minimise the risk of future folk drilling holes in the floor (they do this with sickening regularity).

 

[Redsquirrel]

The old ring circuit using very old wires and i'd rather not extend that (hence why i was originally told to start a new circuit).

Does the electrician not sign it off on the end? (i assumed then, it would be notified).

I had run the cable vertically from the socket, but i had chased the walls for the cable to run between sockets. I honestly have no idea what the originally electrician was going to do then - i assume he was going to chase it and sign it off anyway.

Going in the floor is possible (the concrete seems to chisel up nicely) but would be a long job (obviously i want to make this safe).

I'd just be annoyed if i got a electrician in and he did it the way i was planning to

 

[Space cat]

If you are going in the floor I would want to see the cable at least 50mm from the surface and run in conduit/tube of some sort before the floor is made good.

But watch out for the damp-proof membrane.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Does the electrician not sign it off on the end? (i assumed then, it would be notified).

He has to certify the work as being designed, installed and tested by him.
He can only notify the work if he has done the work.

He may let you do the grunt work, under his guidance,

That's the rules, sorry.

 

[Redsquirrel]

So..

If i just extended the current ring (from the working socket in the living room) this would sort out some of my problems then it would appear - doesnt completly solve the issue with wiring it around the room though.

Sounds like i wouldnt even need an electrician for that? But i obviously dont want to cause issues with my house insurance etc so i'd still assume it would be safe to do?

I may end up just getting a professional to do it if need be.

 

[Chri5]

Adapting an existing circuit isn't notifiable.

To keep to the safe cabling zones you need to chase the wall between sockets and run the cabling horizontally. Going in to the floor scree is a pain, and best avoided, Simple things like the carpet man bailing gripper straight through the cable will happen- so avoid it by not using that route.

I would suggest that you attempt to renew the ring in the room with the new part being added to the existing ring points (maybe through the wall back to back). If you really want a whole new ring then seek an electrician that will allow you to do the prep / donkey work- some will, some won't.

Have you put rubber grommets on the back box cable entries?

 

[Space cat]

-- there has always only ever been one plug socket for the room!

The old ring circuit using very old wires --

Are you sure it's a ring? Do you have two sets of old wires connected to that socket? If you have a meter, remove each pair of wires from its terminal and check for continuity between them. (Power off obviously.)

 

[Redsquirrel]

Thanks guys i do appreciate your replies.

I actually have a feeling the existing socket is radial.

I have someone coming around after work to have a look. He has done a lot of electric work in the past so is going to advise me.

He has said he has run had to run cable chased through a wall (to the next socket, like i started doing) - seemed very perplexed though when I said you can't do this - as he has always done so in the past! (had always left a detailed wiring diagram for the owners/future owners)

So maybe it would be best continuing the radial circuit (to be honest this would be better - makes life easier!)

I have not put rubber gromits on the cable, but i can always add if need be. I cant see the cables moving around once i have filled into the gaps.

 

[Taylortwocities]

I have not put rubber gromits on the cable, but i can always add if need be. I cant see the cables moving around once i have filled into the gaps.

Modern electrical cabling has a lifetime of 50+ years. Especially during the installation, and over its lifetime, there is a risk of chafing where the soft PVC meets the hard edge of the back box. If the PVC wears through then you have a big bang and no electricity.

Grommets are cheap cheap cheap.

They are used for good reason.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I was unaware that i would have to notify the local authority building control - an electrician would surely only have to do this if he can not sign off his own work?

You've been lurking here for a while but not once have you seen any mention of Part P, work being notifiable etc?

From what i was aware (I have spent a long term researching) a competent person may perform the work but must not be allowed to connect to the consumer unit without having it inspected by an electrician first and running tests.

Not energising the circuit before it's been tested is basic procedure, and has nothing to do with who may, or may not do the work or when and how it gets notified to Building Control.

I am just a bit perplexed why a fully qualified electrician would say he would run the cables behind the skirting and into the concrete floor - and no mention was made of alerting LABC.

IMO it's because he's a cowboy who was lying about his qualifications.

 

[Redsquirrel]

I have another electrician who will hopefully be coming around. I have decided to stop everything until he has been around.