IP rated amendment 3 CU

[Martynrosscampbell]

Hi all not been here for a while!

I'm just quoting a job.. Wiring for stables/tack room fed from old agricultural shed/garage building down the lane. This building is fed from the house.

Stables will be 2 circuits so i can use the BG IP rated garage unit which is compliant with amendment 3.

The Shed/garage building is the issue. Currently has 2 way insulated garage CU feeding socket and sewage plant. I need to add 3 additional circuits in a new CU. The building is technically dry but CU is positioned as such that it could be exposed to some splashes/damp walls/condensation. I can't seem to find any larger IP rated amendment 3 CU's. Wholesalers just show me the old hager insulated ones! Am i looking at a metal enclosure or has someone found another product that fits the bill. The client has specified that they would like everything to be IP rated as well so no lashing it in and doing a runner!!

Cheers all

 

[JohnW2]

.... I can't seem to find any larger IP rated amendment 3 CU's. ...

I can't help you with your question (but am sure that someone should be able to), but I can't help but observing that "IP-rated Amendment 3 CU" sounds like a variation on the theme of "Rust-prone IP-rated CU"

Kind Regards, John

 

[John D v2.0]

You can always just put a plastic IP rated cu in an enclosure made of cement board or similar, then tile it and silicone.

 

[Martynrosscampbell]

You can always just put a plastic IP rated cu in an enclosure made of cement board or similar, then tile it and silicone.

I know, I just think that a, it will look a bit gash! b, If i use a metal enclosure thats probably another £60-£100 on a job which is racking up as it is!

 

[John D v2.0]

I know, I just think that a, it will look a bit gash! b, If i use a metal enclosure thats probably another £60-£100 on a job which is racking up as it is!

Yeah true and I've no idea why I wrote tile it and silicone, obviously that would be completely unnecessary

 

[Martynrosscampbell]

yeah i did wonder what you were on about there! I'm not here to judge though. you tile away!

 

[John D v2.0]

yeah i did wonder what you were on about there! I'm not here to judge though. you tile away!

I think it's just because I've been fitting aqua panel to our new built in toilet frame today ready to tile next week and we're going to silicone the removable panel so we can get at the plumbing. Brain is mixing things up perhaps

 

[Iggifer]

Surely an AMD3 enclosure in a larger IP enclosure is easier, cheaper and just the correct way to do it?

 

[JohnW2]

There is, of course, debate as whether it is even intended that the Amd3 requirement should apply to CUs in any outbuilding, let alone what sounds like a fairly 'remote' one which the OP describes.

It all depends upon how one interprets ""within domestic (household) premises". Those who look up "premises" in a standard dictionary conclude that it does include outbuildings, but I wonder if even the LFB, seemingly instigators of this much-criticised regulation, let alone the authors of BS7671, would be too concerned about a hypothetical fire originating in a CU in an outbuilding?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There is, of course, debate as whether it is even intended that the Amd3 requirement should apply to CUs in any outbuilding, let alone what sounds like a fairly 'remote' one which the OP describes.

It all depends upon how one interprets ""within domestic (household) premises". Those who look up "premises" in a standard dictionary conclude that it does include outbuildings, but I wonder if even the LFB, seemingly instigators of this much-criticised regulation, let alone the authors of BS7671, would be too concerned about a hypothetical fire originating in a CU in an outbuilding?

Kind Regards, John

"Fed from the house" means that Part P applies.

As for outbuildings, with a shed/garage/summerhouse in the garden of a house it would IMO be hard to argue that it was not part of the "domestic (household) premises".

With agricultural buildings it is IMO very easy to argue that they are not domestic premises, even if owned by the same person and supplied from the house.

If I were the OP I would have no qualms about being right to install a quality plastic IP rated CU which met the fire-resistance requirements of BS-EN 6xxxxx for switchgear (sorry - CBA to look up the number), issue an EIC declaring it compliant, and notifying it.

 

[Lectrician]

Concur.

 

[JohnW2]

Concur.

I think I agree. As I wrote ....

It all depends upon how one interprets ""within domestic (household) premises". Those who look up "premises" in a standard dictionary conclude that it does include outbuildings, but I wonder if even the LFB, seemingly instigators of this much-criticised regulation, let alone the authors of BS7671, would be too concerned about a hypothetical fire originating in a CU in an outbuilding?

Even though the OP has described it as an "agricultural shed/garage", I'm not sure that, with that information alone, one can confidently conclude (as BAS did) that this shed/garage is 'agricultural', rather than 'domestic' - particularly given that is fed from a 'house' (presumably 'domestic'). However, as above, despite dictionaries, I'm not convinced that it was intended that any outbuildings came within the scope of this reg, and I'm also inclined to think that the situation described does not come within the spirit of the reg (or LFB's thinking).

I would certainly say that, electrically, being adequately protected against the elements is more important than being 'non-combustible'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Martynrosscampbell]

Cheers all for your responses. My understanding of the reg was that if its fed from the same cut out fuse as the house the reg still applied. The reality of a fire spreading too far in a garage made largely of precast concrete is pretty slim! I think i would be inclined to agree with you all though and go with a decent insulated unit. I feel that putting that inside a sealed metal cabinet might look like I'm trying to unnecessarily spend my clients money!

 

[EFLImpudence]

My understanding of the reg was that if its fed from the same cut out fuse as the house the reg still applied.

I think you are confusing premises to which Part P applies.

The requirement for non-combustible CUs and similar is purely dependent on the building in which it is - domestic (household) premises.