IP44 bathroom ceiling light with existing ceiling rose

[nsandersen]

Good afternoon!

I want to fit an IP44 rated light on my bathroom ceiling outside the shower and sink zone. The existing light is attached to a ceiling rose (picture), but the fitting for the new light cannot accept and contain the rose.

Untitled

• nsandersen
• 30 Aug 2014
• 1

I am thinking about pushing the ceiling rose about an inch into the loft and putting it in a junction box resting above the new light (the new light is much larger than the rose and would cover the hole in the plaster board).

If I do this, does the junction box need the IP44 rating too or will the loft + IP44 light cover it?

I think it will, but if I do this, I might as well follow regulations unlike previous owners of my flat..

 

[sparkwright]

Is there a loft space above?

You need to chuck the rose away, and fit a 20 amp 4 terminal junction box, with a short 1.0 mm² twin and earth cable from the jb to the fitting.

The junction box needs to be above the ceiling.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Junction box in the loft is fine

Some points
If the JB one of the regular round ones, then it must be screwed to something (ie a joist) so it cant move around. And the cables need to be clipped, so they cannot pull out.

Make very careful note of what goes where in teh ceiling rose so you can transpose them to the JB. It looks like you have a fan connection there (?) and lots of black and red wires, so there's many ways of getting it wrong.

good luck…..

 

[nsandersen]

If the JB one of the regular round ones, then it must be screwed to something (ie a joist) so it cant move around. And the cables need to be clipped, so they cannot pull out.

I cannot access that part of the loft, although it might be possible from the neighbouring flat. So to fix it, I would probably have to attach it to the top of the IP44 light casing.

When you say clipped, what do you mean, they must be attached to the loft board or joist so they cannot easily be pulled out?

Thank you.

 

[sparkwright]

One POSSIBLE solution may be to cut a circular box into the ceiling, and house the connections using connector blocks in that.

A conduit besa box or a circular fast fix box may provide this.

You may wish to choose another light fitting which has room for the connections.

Be aware some light fittings get hot, you don't want your wires getting hot as the insulation can crumble. Heat proof sleeving is available.

By clipping he means securing to the joist with cable clips.

 

[RF Lighting]

Drill an 80mm hole in the back of the fitting and slot it over the batten back plate

 

[nsandersen]

Drill an 80mm hole in the back of the fitting and slot it over the batten back plate

Very tempted to do that, but I will look into the boxes.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Please be aware that the existing ceiling rose is probably either fitted to a joist, or a cross member (noggin), so plans to cut a larger hole in that exact location may have some problems!

 

[nsandersen]

A conduit besa box or a circular fast fix box may provide this.

OK, they look like fairly normal boxes, not splashproof or IP rated, so I think I will just try a round junction box attached to the top of the light case.

You may wish to choose another light fitting which has room for the connections.

I had a look, but most are made to be fitted directly against the ceiling and do not have holes to let in more than two wires (I guess that would make the IP rating more difficult or costly to obtain).

 

[DaftPunk]

The alternative is to employ an electrician who will fit IP rated fittings to this sort of wiring day in day out without any problem.

 

[sparkwright]

Fitting a junction box between the ceiling and the light fitting sounds like a bodge to me.

You could try to push the junction box into the ceiling void, that would be a bit better.

There's lots of bathroom bulkhead type fittings that should accomodate lots of wiring, though clearly your fitting does not.

It is a pain, when a fitting isn't designed for more than one or two cables.