IP65 outdoor socket

[appledell]

Before I make a Tit of myself with the electrician, Is there such a thing as a flush (or nearly flush) IP rated outdoor socket? Or can an outdoor socket be made to sit nearly flush in a new wall?

SWMBO is adamant that she wants an outside socket on a covered porch but the sockets are fugly !

Thanks

 

[flameport]

MK Masterseal Plus can be flush mounted, but on unfinished walls this will mean a frame around the socket, this: http://www.rbstarelectrical.co.uk/products/k56503gry
If the wall is to be plastered or finished in some other way, there are flush mounting frames which are concealed under the plaster.

Either way they are hideously expensive, and won't look much different from the surface fixed version.

 

[appledell]

Thanks flameport. Something to think about

 

[ban-all-sheds]

1) Do you need IP65, or would IP44 or 54 do?

2) Do you need to maintain the IP rating when it's in use?

You can get sockets for the outside of caravans/motor homes which are almost flush, and less obtrusive than Masterseal. You'd have to f**t about doing something about/making your own back box though.

 

[RF Lighting]

If you take your time and are careful, you can flush mount a standard MK master seal socket.

 

[appledell]

Thanks ban all sheds

Found the following which will fit the bill nicely as it will be away from direct weather, and if it is ok on a motorhome outside in all direct weather then its good enough for me

http://bullfinch-gas.co.uk/outdoor-utility-points/electric-outlet-point-133-detail

 

[JohnW2]

Found the following which will fit the bill nicely as it will be away from direct weather, and if it is ok on a motorhome outside in all direct weather then its good enough for me http://bullfinch-gas.co.uk/outdoor-utility-points/electric-outlet-point-133-detail[/QUOTE]
Yes, but as BAS said, what are you going to put behind it (mount it onto)? Your application is rather different from cutting a hole in the outer panel of a motor home and screwing the socket onto the panel (with the connections hence 'within' the motorhome).

Kind Regards, John

 

[appledell]

at the moment, the cavity is open (extension) so can access the rear from within.

 

[JohnW2]

at the moment, the cavity is open (extension) so can access the rear from within.

It's not only a matter of access - I still don't fully understand exactly what you're going to attach that socket to (and achieve 'weatherproofing').

Kind Regards, John

 

[appledell]

Thanks John

The socket is mounted directly to the wall with screws, there is a gasket at the rear as well. only a 105mm circular hole is required. There should? be enough space for rawlplugs?the cavity is dry and if it ever got wet to the height of the plug, then the internal plugs would be wet too. The 'veranda' is sheltered from above and 3 sides by about 2 metres. It would have to be horizontal driving rain to reach it?

think I'll try and sight one before commiting

Its a pity that MK don't do a dedicated flush mount outdoor socket

regards

Mike

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks John. The socket is mounted directly to the wall with screws, there is a gasket at the rear as well. only a 105mm circular hole is required. There should? be enough space for rawlplugs?the cavity is dry and if it ever got wet to the height of the plug, then the internal plugs would be wet too. The 'veranda' is sheltered from above and 3 sides by about 2 metres. It would have to be horizontal driving rain to reach it?

I'm not sure, and am not convinced. Even indoors, it would not normally be acceptable to screw a socket faceplate to a wall without some sort of 'backbox' behind it. Also, 'horizontal driving rain' does happen!

Its a pity that MK don't do a dedicated flush mount outdoor socket

I suspect there is little demand, not the least because most people are not sufficiently concerned about outdoor aesthetics to contemplate the task of making a neat hole in an outside wall. Also, don't forget that, since there is going to have to be some sort of openable cover, it could never be totally flush. As RF has pointed out, with sufficient care one can sink a standard (e.g. Masterseal) socket into a wall to the maximum depth that is possible whilst still enabling the cover to be opened and the cable to leave the plug without kinking.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Even indoors, it would not normally be acceptable to screw a socket faceplate to a wall without some sort of 'backbox' behind it.

What about in caravans, to which BS 7671 equally applies? Is a back box actually required?

Also, 'horizontal driving rain' does happen!

It happens to caravans and motorhomes too.

Also, don't forget that, since there is going to have to be some sort of openable cover, it could never be totally flush

Apple - are you any good at carpentry?

If you are you could build a small wooden enclosure to set into the inner leaf of the wall, with an appropriately styled door, inside which you install a Masterseal socket. If you use full overlay or concealed inset hinges the door could be flush.

 

[JohnW2]

Even indoors, it would not normally be acceptable to screw a socket faceplate to a wall without some sort of 'backbox' behind it.

What about in caravans, to which BS 7671 equally applies? Is a back box actually required?

Good question - do you know the answer?

Indeed, do you agree with what I said about 'indoors'? When I acquired my present house, very many moons ago, many of the sockets were attached to stud walls (mainly lathe and plaster!) or skirtings with woodscrews or similar, with no boxes of any sort behind them. Even then, I did not regard that as acceptable (and therefore changed it), and I certainly would be doubtful about it now - but, having said that, I'm not sure what reg would explicitly outlaw it. Any thoughts/ideas?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Good question - do you know the answer?

No. But my point was that these types of caravan sockets don't seem to have or need back boxes, therefore if BS 7671 allows that in caravans it must surely allow it in houses.

Indeed, do you agree with what I said about 'indoors'? When I acquired my present house, very many moons ago, many of the sockets were attached to stud walls (mainly lathe and plaster!) or skirtings with woodscrews or similar, with no boxes of any sort behind them. Even then, I did not regard that as acceptable (and therefore changed it), and I certainly would be doubtful about it now - but, having said that, I'm not sure what reg would explicitly outlaw it. Any thoughts/ideas?

Yes.

I thought you were talking about regulatory acceptability.

 

[JohnW2]

Good question - do you know the answer?

No. But my point was that these types of caravan sockets don't seem to have or need back boxes, therefore if BS 7671 allows that in caravans it must surely allow it in houses.

Yes, I realise that was your point - and, as I said, it made me wonder whether I was correct in saying that it would not usually be allowed in houses ....

Indeed, do you agree with what I said about 'indoors'? When I acquired my present house, very many moons ago, many of the sockets were attached to stud walls (mainly lathe and plaster!) or skirtings with woodscrews or similar, with no boxes of any sort behind them. Even then, I did not regard that as acceptable (and therefore changed it), and I certainly would be doubtful about it now - but, having said that, I'm not sure what reg would explicitly outlaw it. Any thoughts/ideas?

Yes. I thought you were talking about regulatory acceptability.

I was ... so what is the answer? Are sockets installed over holes in stud walls or skirting boards, without any back boxes, allowed by BS7671 - and, if not, what regulation explicitly forbids it?

Kind Regards, John