Is a sticker required on the Consumer Unit??

[JohnW2]

But it reminds us of the extra danger created by mixing colours, and therefore reminds us that if it's reasonable for you to use old colours to extend/modify an old installation it is a legal requirement to do so.

I'm not getting into that one again However, I would say that the 'extra danger' created by mixing colours, certainly in single-phase installations, is probably somewhere between 'minimal' and 'vanishingly small'!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Obviously some "Elf an Sayftee" person on a grossly inflated publicly-funded salary with Sierra Foxtrot Alpha better to do!

If where you work is publicly funded and tends to employ people on grossly inflated salaries then maybe you have a point.

Otherwise it's just ignorant prejudiced drivel from someone hard of thinking.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

An appropriate warning label would make sense if your switch unit contained all three phases of lighting circuits with the three phases having separate means of isolation.

Some people take a more extreme view.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I would say that the 'extra danger' created by mixing colours, certainly in single-phase installations, is probably somewhere between 'minimal' and 'vanishingly small'!

Nevertheless, the generally accepted rules say you must have the warning notice, and if you think about what a warning of a situation requiring great care means it means that the makers of the generally accepted rules consider that mixed colours have dangers that non-mixed do not.

So there is no way that deliberately introducing dangers when you could reasonably not introduce them can possibly qualify as making reasonable provision for safety.

 

[JohnW2]

Nevertheless, the generally accepted rules say you must have the warning notice, and if you think about what a warning of a situation requiring great care means it means that the makers of the generally accepted rules consider that mixed colours have dangers that non-mixed do not. So there is no way that deliberately introducing dangers when you could reasonably not introduce them can possibly qualify as making reasonable provision for safety.

As I've acknowldeged in the past, I cannot question the logic of your argument, per se, so there's nothing to debate there. However, as time goes by, that argument is presumably going to be increasingly weakened by the contrary consideration that use of 'old colours' cable will presumably mean the installation of increasingly 'old' cable (long time since manufacture).

The practicality, of course, is that (despite some individuals having stockpiles, and expensive supplies still being avialable via eBay etc.) UK supplies of unused 'old colours' cable must be getting exhausted fairly quickly. I don;t know whether there are any overseas (presumably expensive) sources, but I don't think it would be considered 'reasonable' to expect people to source cable from there!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

However, as time goes by, that argument is presumably going to be increasingly weakened by the contrary consideration that use of 'old colours' cable will presumably mean the installation of increasingly 'old' cable (long time since manufacture).

I wonder what the shelf life of PVC cable is?

The practicality, of course, is that (despite some individuals having stockpiles, and expensive supplies still being avialable via eBay etc.) UK supplies of unused 'old colours' cable must be getting exhausted fairly quickly. I don;t know whether there are any overseas (presumably expensive) sources, but I don't think it would be considered 'reasonable' to expect people to source cable from there!

Agree, and I also don't think it reasonable to expect people to source it from expensive eBay sellers either.

 

[JohnW2]

However, as time goes by, that argument is presumably going to be increasingly weakened by the contrary consideration that use of 'old colours' cable will presumably mean the installation of increasingly 'old' cable (long time since manufacture).

I wonder what the shelf life of PVC cable is?

I suspect very long, under ideal storage conditions, but I can also see future eyebrows rising a lot if it is installed after a few decades 'on the shelf'!

Agree, and I also don't think it reasonable to expect people to source it from expensive eBay sellers either.

Quite - which is why, although I cannot fault the logic of your argument, I think it is, or is rapidly becoming, rather moot.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[stillp]

It could even be argued that the requirement for these stickers actually create a new hazard, since someone who doesn't see a sticker might assume that the installation does not use multiple colours.

 

[JohnW2]

It could even be argued that the requirement for these stickers actually create a new hazard, since someone who doesn't see a sticker might assume that the installation does not use multiple colours.

I suppose it could, but unless the person is blind, or colour blind, they will discover that multiple colours are present when they see them - and they can't do anything to any conductor which they haven't seen!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[stillp]

I was thinking of someone discovering a red/black cable somewhere and assuming (yes, I know) that it must be dead because the cables at the CU are all brown/black.

Also remember that about 10% of adult males are to some extent colour-blind (that's one reason why earthed conductors should be bi-coloured green/yellow). I have a colleague who can't tell red/brown/blue apart, although black looks darker than the others to him.

 

[JohnW2]

I was thinking of someone discovering a red/black cable somewhere and assuming (yes, I know) that it must be dead because the cables at the CU are all brown/black.

Fair point (with the inevitable caveat about 'assuming'!)

Also remember that about 10% of adult males are to some extent colour-blind ...

Sure - but are they not one group of people who surely don't need any reminding about the need to be very careful in identifying conductors?

Whatever, I think we're all agreed that the stickers are daft, even if 'required'.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[stillp]

Sure - but are they not one group of people who surely don't need any reminding about the need to be very careful in identifying conductors?

Whatever, I think we're all agreed that the stickers are daft, even if 'required'.

Well, you were the one who first mentioned the colour-blind.

Actually I don't think we're all agreed that the stickers are daft, there are posts in this thread pointing out that they alert people to a possible risk. Given that there is a requirement to install stickers, they are now essential in order to avoid the unwarranted sense of security I suggested above.
it just struck me - most houses have at least one pendant light fitting, the flexible drop to which would have been in the 'new' colours long before the change of T & E colours, so perhaps we should have been using these stickers for many years!

 

[JohnW2]

Actually I don't think we're all agreed that the stickers are daft, there are posts in this thread pointing out that they alert people to a possible risk. Given that there is a requirement to install stickers, they are now essential in order to avoid the unwarranted sense of security I suggested above.

OK - I'll reword that. I think that the introduction of the stickers was daft - since it is that very introduction which has created the risk (of an unwarranted sense of security) you mention.

As for those who believe that the stickers alert people to a possible risk, as I said at the start, many of those who may possibly need alerting to the risk probably wouldn't understand them (as worded), anyway!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[stillp]

OK - I'll reword that. .

Better, John!

I think a greater danger than mixed colours is created by the use of unsleeved 'normal' T & E for switch drops, since it leads many posters on here to assume they have a neutral at the switch. When I last rewired a house (several decades ago...) it was mandatory to use twin red for the switch drops. I still have some in the attic.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

they can't do anything to any conductor which they haven't seen!

And having seen it they shouldn't do anything to it without testing/inspecting it to find out what it is.