Is my new consumer unit 17th edition compliant?

[JohnW2]

I had not realised that the 'at the' was in the previous version. It seems very odd as that would appear to mean that it was deleted on purpose rather than merely reprinted. I do not see that it is up to anyone to decide that that was not what was intended when that is what it actually says and makes perfect sense.

I agree with you, on all points. Many things about what is written in the OSG, and how it is written, remain a mystery to me! It certainly seems probable that the people who write the OSG are different from those who write (and amend) BS7671. Lest anyone doubts what I'm saying about the previous ('red') version of OSG:

Untitled

• JohnW2
• 12 May 2013
• 1

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Ah. It appears that I have made a mistake.
It's a wonder scousespark hasn't come down on me like a ton of bricks.

The green OSG is in fact still the same as your picture.

However, on the next page it is repeated as I have been saying.
This is under the heading of MPB of plastic services although this heading is on the previous page. This is different than the red OSG.

It says with reference to 544.1.2 in the margin -
All main bonding conductors are to be applied to the consumer's side of any meter, main stop valve or insulating insert and where practicable, within 600mm. of the meter outlet union or at the point of entry to the building if the meter is external".

So, a bit more confusing.

 

[JohnW2]

Ah. It appears that I have made a mistake. It's a wonder scousespark hasn't come down on me like a ton of bricks.

I wouldn't worry, you're probably immune - he seems to be very selective.

...The green OSG is in fact still the same as your picture. ... However, on the next page it is repeated as I have been saying. This is under the heading of MPB of plastic services although this heading is on the previous page. This is different than the red OSG. It says with reference to 544.1.2 in the margin -
All main bonding conductors are to be applied to the consumer's side of any meter, main stop valve or insulating insert and where practicable, within 600mm. of the meter outlet union or at the point of entry to the building if the meter is external".
So, a bit more confusing.

Thanks for clarifying - but, as you say, what you appear to be clarifying is the confusion!

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

MY point being that the wording in BS7671, in the final sentence seems to be directly concerning gas connection, where the OSG doesn't.

 

[JohnW2]

MY point being that the wording in BS7671, in the final sentence seems to be directly concerning gas connection, where the OSG doesn't.

Are you talking about 544.1.2? If so, what on earth makes you say that? That sentence doesn't make any reference to gas, and virtually all of our (many!) discussions about that sentence have related to water supplies. As per the first sentence, I think that all of 544.1.2 is meant to relate to all incoming services (water,gas or 'other').

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

what on earth

 

[JohnW2]

MY point being that the wording in BS7671, in the final sentence seems to be directly concerning gas connection, where the OSG doesn't.

Are you talking about 544.1.2? If so, what on earth makes you say that? That sentence doesn't make any reference to gas, and virtually all of our (many!) discussions about that sentence have related to water supplies. As per the first sentence, I think that all of 544.1.2 is meant to relate to all incoming services (water,gas or 'other').

I forgot to add ... since the last sentence of 544.1.2 is the only place where the infamous 600mm is mentioned, are you (PBoD) suggesting that the 600mm thing does not apply to water supply pipes?

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I am suggesting that the way regulation 544.1.2 is written, suggests that, as it mentions meter outlets unions and external meters (more common to gas, unless you have a water meter of course)
And that the OSG(green book) version seems to correspond with my learning and enquires.


544.1.2

The main equipotential bonding connection to any gas, water or other service shall be made as near as practicable to the point of entry of that service into the premises. Where there is an insulating section or insert at that point, or there is a meter, the connection shall be made to the consumer's hard metal pipework and before any branch pipework. Where practicable the connection shall be made within 600mm of the meter outlet union or at the point of entry to the building if the meter is external

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I do not see that it is up to anyone to decide that that was not what was intended when that is what it actually says and makes perfect sense.

Particularly given the disclaimer.

 

[JohnW2]

I am suggesting that the way regulation 544.1.2 is written, suggests that, as it mentions meter outlets unions and external meters (more common to gas, unless you have a water meter of course)

I really don't think I can agree with that. As I said, I've always teken the first sentence to indicate that the whole of 544.1.2 applies to all types of service pipe, and there really is nothing in the words of the last sentence which supports your suggestion. Water meters are extremely common over here, and they all have 'meter outlet unions'. As I said, nearly all our discussions here about that last sentence of 544.1.2 (particularly the "600mm") have related to water pipes.

As I asked, are you really suggesting that the "within 600mm" statement relates only to gas, not water? I'm sure that I've seen you (as well as countless others) talking about "within 600mm" in relation to bonding water pipes - if that doesn't come from the last sentence of 544.1.2, where does that come from?

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I am not suggesting anything other than the terminology seems to lend it's self to gas metering.
I think I have made that plain.
(water meters are not that common, in my location of work)

As I asked, are you really suggesting that the "within 600mm" statement relates only to gas, not water? I'm sure that I've seen you (as well as countless others) talking about "within 600mm" in relation to bonding water pipes - if that doesn't come from the last sentence of 544.1.2, where does that come from?

Well as you asked again, I believe I gave directive to the OSG, as my source of understanding( you may have missed that).

Time to let go, going around in circles!

 

[scousespark]

Ah. It appears that I have made a mistake.
It's a wonder scousespark hasn't come down on me like a ton of bricks.

The green OSG is in fact still the same as your picture.

However, on the next page it is repeated as I have been saying.
This is under the heading of MPB of plastic services although this heading is on the previous page. This is different than the red OSG.

It says with reference to 544.1.2 in the margin -
All main bonding conductors are to be applied to the consumer's side of any meter, main stop valve or insulating insert and where practicable, within 600mm. of the meter outlet union or at the point of entry to the building if the meter is external".

So, a bit more confusing.

I responded to a post, which the OP took as an ok to open up a CU to change an MCB with no need to consider any safety considerations. That's a bit different to deciding the point to fix a clamp to a length of pipe.
That thread is dead (fortunately Shep is still with us).

 

[securespark]

fortunately Shep is still with us

Not this one:
http://www.virginmedia.com/tvradio/galleries/tv-dogs.php?ssid=7

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Old Shep he has gone
Where the good doggies go

 

[JohnW2]

I am not suggesting anything other than the terminology seems to lend it's self to gas metering. I think I have made that plain. ... Time to let go, going around in circles!

We're not so much 'going round in circles' as we are 'going nowhere'. You and I have both made very clear our very different interpretations of the last sentence of 544.1.2, and neither of us are shifting. What we need is some other opinions. Anyone?!

(water meters are not that common, in my location of work)

I thought that might be the case, which is why I said "over here" (mainland UK). The most recent OFWAT figures I can find are for 2010, when they reported that the proportion of residential properties in England & Wales that had water meters was "over 40% and continually rising". I'd call that pretty common.

Well as you asked again, I believe I gave directive to the OSG, as my source of understanding( you may have missed that).

Well for a start, the regs are the regs, regardless of the OSG. However, even if one forgets that, the OSG says that the 'within 600mm" applies to "gas, water, oil etc.". Since, as far as I can see, the 600mm thing is only mentioned in the last sentence of 544.12.2, that means that even the person who wrote the OSG believed that this sentence of the regs applied to water and oil etc., as well as gas.

Kind Regards, John