Is my new consumer unit 17th edition compliant?

[simondiynewb]

I had a new consumer unit fitted by B&Q as part of a new kitchen fitting, they subcontracted to someone I believe was a proper electrician. The first thing he has done wrong is labelled the fuses differently on the sticker on the consumer unit to the labelling by the actual fuses, this made me lose trust in his work and now I am concerned with a few other points about his work....

He has earthed the consumer unit to the gas pipe on the house side of my gas meter, is that acceptable? A friend just had a new consumer unit and his electrician wasnt happy earthing to the gas pipe and insisted on earthing to the water pipe. My water pipe is 10ft away and is plastic so maybe that explains it.

Also the consumer unit is sited 5cm below a gas pipe and I understand the regs say it must be 15cm, is this a problem? The consumer unit is on my garage wall high up by the ceiling and the gas pipe is the other side of the plasterboard ceiling. The reason I know where the gas pipe is because the kitchen fitter cut a hole in the ceiling in order to gain access to pass a new cable through to the kitchen for the cooker.

Can someone confirm if these are problems?

Thanks

 

[EFLImpudence]

He has earthed the consumer unit to the gas pipe on the house side of my gas meter, is that acceptable? A friend just had a new consumer unit and his electrician wasnt happy earthing to the gas pipe and insisted on earthing to the water pipe. My water pipe is 10ft away and is plastic so maybe that explains it.

They should both be bonded (it's not earthing) on the consumers side of the meter/stopcock.

Also the consumer unit is sited 5cm below a gas pipe and I understand the regs say it must be 15cm, is this a problem? The consumer unit is on my garage wall high up by the ceiling and the gas pipe is the other side of the plasterboard ceiling.

That is acceptable.
150mm is the distance when there is nothing insulating in between.

Edit - just noticed the water is plastic.
Obviously this does not need bonding.

 

[Taylortwocities]

I had a new consumer unit fitted by B&Q as part of a new kitchen fitting, they subcontracted to someone I believe was a proper electrician.

The work done to install a new consumer unit is notifiable work as required by Building Regulations Part P. The work must be notified by teh electrician to the Local Authority and you should receive a Certificate of Compliance like this

Untitled

• Taylortwocities
• 11 Oct 2008
• 14

this is a LEGAL requirement. As you can see, the cert includes details of the electrician & his membership credentials.

also you should receive an Electrical Installation Certificate from the electrician that details the test results done for each and every circuit on the new consumer unit (i.e. the whole house). This document will also include the name and contact details of the electrician.

Get on B&Q's case if you have not got both of these documents.

 

[simondiynewb]

I do have all the paperwork and certificate of compliance.
It sounds like I may be worrying about nothing. Thanks for the reassurance.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

He has earthed the consumer unit to the gas pipe on the house side of my gas meter, is that acceptable?

The gas pipework should be bonded after the meter union on the consumers side

A friend just had a new consumer unit and his electrician wasnt happy earthing to the gas pipe and insisted on earthing to the water pipe. My water pipe is 10ft away and is plastic so maybe that explains it.

The gas pipe must be bonded, unless it is an insulated service, as must the water.

Also the consumer unit is sited 5cm below a gas pipe and I understand the regs say it must be 15cm, is this a problem?

The gas regs do state that, a second barrier of insulation should be in place, or a risk assessment made, to confirm it is not a risk.

The consumer unit is on my garage wall high up by the ceiling and the gas pipe is the other side of the plasterboard ceiling. The reason I know where the gas pipe is because the kitchen fitter cut a hole in the ceiling in order to gain access to pass a new cable through to the kitchen for the cooker.

so there is barrier between gas pipe and CU?

Can someone confirm if these are problems?

I have tried! did you receive a certificate of the installation? if so as far as main earth bonding of gas and water what remarks are made on the document(s)?
If the labelling is incorrect, this is a non-compliance and you do have a route to complain.

 

[simondiynewb]

Yes there is a barrier between gas pipe and CU, there is a plasterboard ceiling.
It does sound like everything is OK and I was worrying over nothing.
Thanks.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Yes there is a barrier between gas pipe and CU, there is a plasterboard ceiling.
It does sound like everything is OK and I was worrying over nothing.

It seems that way, from what you have posted.
But the consumer unit should be marked and labelled correctly, although this is not be deemed as no more than improvement required, this should still be compliant and no excuses by the installer to fail to comply.
Did they issue certificates? Get them back to sort this out.

With respects to the incoming water services, if the pipework is lead or copper when entering the building and onwards from the internal stop tap, this should be bonded.
The regulations state consumer side of water services when entering the property, this is open to interpretation as many believe the consumer side is after the internal stop tap, which it is not, it is actually from the external tap stop which is generally located at the boundary wall of the property.
So the pipework if practicable should be bonded within 600mm of entering the property, not as some would believe within 600mm of internal stop tap.

 

[JohnW2]

The regulations state consumer side of water services when entering the property, this is open to interpretation as many believe the consumer side is after the internal stop tap, which it is not, it is actually from the external tap stop which is generally located at the boundary wall of the property.
So the pipework if practicable should be bonded within 600mm of entering the property, not as some would believe within 600mm of internal stop tap.

... except that (although a good few of us think this is wrong) if there is an internal meter (or 'insulating section' close to entry of the service into the property), the regs state that the bonding should be on the consumer's side of that meter or insulating section. In my house, that means that, to comply with the regs, my bonding has to be connected about 4 metres from where the metal water pipe enters the premises

[ In passing, the definition of 'consumer side of water services' you mention (a concept which is not mentioned in BS7671) is that used by water suppliers, primarily in relation to defining where consumer's responsibility for pipework commences. As you say, with the caveats mentioned above, BS7671 state that the bonding should be as near as practicable to the point of entry into the premises, if practicable within 600mm of entry, regardless of where "the consumer's side of the water services" starts]

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

What I am saying is that is often believed and wrongly, that the consumers side of the water service is after the internal stop tap.
But this is incorrect as I have previously stated the consumers side is at the location of the external stop top.
544.1.2 "States bonding within 600mm of entering the building, if reasonably practicable, to the consumers hard metal pipework"
This is often before the internal stop tap is connected to the system.
With regards to water regulations, it's a requirement that every property should have an external stopvalve. It's the water undertakers that do not take on the reprehensibility of the pipework after this connection, therefore from that point onwards it becomes the consumers/property owners responsibility.

 

[JohnW2]

What I am saying is that is often believed and wrongly, that the consumers side of the water service is after the internal stop tap. But this is incorrect as I have previously stated the consumers side is at the location of the external stop top.

I'm sure that's true but, as I said, since BS7671 does not actually refer to "the consumer's side of the water service", it's not directly relevant to the bonding issue.

544.1.2 "States bonding within 600mm of entering the building, if reasonably practicable, to the consumers hard metal pipework"

That's almost correct, except that it actually mentions 600mm only in relation to the distance from the meter outlet union of a (by implication) internal meter. If the meter is external, it says that bonding should be ("where practicable") 'at the point of entry to the building' (without saying anything about 600mm).

Kind Regards, John

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

My thinking is that 544.1.2 refers to the services of gas, water, oil etc. In it's entirety, although reads and maybe interpreted differently.
If one cares to read the directions within the OSG, that would follow my understanding of this requirement.

 

[JohnW2]

My thinking is that 544.1.2 refers to the services of gas, water, oil etc. In it's entirety, although reads and maybe interpreted differently.

You don't really need to 'think' that, or do any interpreting - is that not precisely what the first few words of 544.1.2 say?

If one cares to read the directions within the OSG, that would follow my understanding of this requirement.

As far as I can make out, note (iii) in section 4.3 on page 29 of my (red - so not current, but probably hasn't changed) OSG says exactly the same as 544.1.2, except that they have seriously shuffled around the order of words and sentences! Do you read it as saying something which 544.1.2 doesn't say? Interestingly, Figs 2.1, 2.2 and 2.3 in my OSG show MBP to water supply connected on the consumer's side of the in-house stopcck, not 'at the point of entry into the building'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

But the OSG is, as usual, poorly written. It says -

"where practicable, within 600mm. of the meter outlet union or point of entry to the building if the meter is external".

544.1.2 says -

"where practicable, within 600mm. of the meter outlet union or at the point of entry to the building if the meter is external".

rather a crucial difference.

With the OSG it depends whether you think the 'OR' applies to the whole preceding phrase including the '600mm.' or not.
With 544.1.2 it cannot.

 

[JohnW2]

But the OSG is, as usual, poorly written. It says -
"where practicable, within 600mm. of the meter outlet union or point of entry to the building if the meter is external".
544.1.2 says -
"where practicable, within 600mm. of the meter outlet union or at the point of entry to the building if the meter is external".
rather a crucial difference.

Yes, a crucial difference, but it sounds as if you must have forked out for the new OSG. My (red) OSG says "...or at the point of entry...", exactly the same as does 544.1.2. Whoever revised the OSG must have thought either that the wording of 544.1.2 was typographically wrong (in relation to what was intended), or else that they felt that they knew better than BS7671!

With the OSG it depends whether you think the 'OR' applies to the whole preceding phrase including the '600mm.' or not.

Agreed - with your version of the OSG, but not mine!

With 544.1.2 it cannot.

Indeed - and, of course, BS7671 is 'the regs', and the OSG just a 'guide' The writing of both of these documents is certainly appalling in places!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

I did not want it. Unfortunately I was forced to buy it (on line there and then) at my last assessment or would not pass.

I had not realised that the 'at the' was in the previous version.
It seems very odd as that would appear to mean that it was deleted on purpose rather than merely reprinted.

I do not see that it is up to anyone to decide that that was not what was intended when that is what it actually says and makes perfect sense.