is it two problems?

[Softus]

Although I recognise, and always have done, that the PCB is a major part of the control system, I'm not aware that the relevant Regs / legislation makes the distinction to the extent that only a RGI my install it.

Whilst CORGI's view on the matter is interesting, they don't make the law. I'm a little confused by the assertion that a competent person must be registered with CORGI - I hadn't realised that a court had ruled on this definition of competent (in the context of gas), but if it has, then so be it; I'd like to read the ruling myself though...

 

[kevplumb]

work" in relation to a gas fitting includes
any of the following activities carried out by ANY person,
whether an employee or not, that is to say -

(a) installing or re-connecting the fitting;

(b) maintaining, servicing, permanently adjusting, disconnecting,
repairing, altering or renewing the fitting or purging it of air or gas;

(c) where the fitting is not readily movable, changing its position; and

(d) removing the fitting;

but the expression does not include the connection or disconnection of a bayonet fitting
or other self-sealing connector.



Qualification and supervision

3. - (1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting
or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.

(2) The employer of any person carrying out such work for that employer,
every other employer and self-employed person who has control to any extent
of such work and every employer and self-employed person who has required such work
to be carried out at any place of work under his control
shall ensure that paragraph (1) above is complied with in relation to such work.

(3) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraphs (1) and (2) above
and subject to paragraph (4) below,
no employer shall allow any of his employees
to carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or service pipework
and no self-employed person shall carry out any such work,
unless the employer or self-employed person, as the case may be,
is a member of a class of persons approved
for the time being by the Health and Safety Executive
for the purposes of this paragraph.

at this time CORGI is the only class of persons approved by the HSE

 

[Softus]

Kev, that relates only to gas fittings, as stated in the first paragraph.

 

[kevplumb]

yes but a boiler is a gas fitting

 

[Agile]

Softus, I think you will find that in that particular context a "gas fitting" includes a gas appliance like a gas fire, cooker or boiler.

 

[Softus]

A gas appliance is a gas appliance. A fitting is a fitting.

I've spoken to CORGI to get their opinion on the definition of a fitting, and they agreed with mine, which is any gas pipe, gas pipe coupling, gas joint, gas fitting, gas valve, gas burner, gas flue, gas flue joint, and vents pertaining to a gas appaliance.

I asked CORGI whether it agreed with me that this interpretation of the law leads to the exclusion of a circulating pump (when inside the boiler housing) from that definition, and it did. I asked the same question about all the water connections, and it agreed. I asked the same question about the PCB, and it agreed.

It appears that the answer from CORGI changes according to whom one speaks. Whatever the answer, it doesn't have any bearing on the law, and a court is the only authority with jurisdiction to enforce an interpretation of the law.

So, Agile, where will I find that the definition of "gas fitting" includes an appliance?

 

[kevplumb]

NTRODUCTION

1 GSIUR 1998 update and replace the provisions of GSIUR 1994 and its 2 sets of GSIUR 1996 Amending Regulations. The HSE publication L56(rev) Safety in the installation and use of gas systems and appliances: GSIUR 1998, which is available from HSE Books, provides ACoP commentary and guidance on the regulations and their interpretation. It is important to note that the requirements of GSIUR 1998 are in addition to, and not in substitution for, the more general requirements of the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974. In serious cases, particularly fatal ones in which gross disregard for safety has been displayed, informations laid under this overlying legislation may be justified because of the potentially higher penalties that they attract.

2 Apart from the consolidation of earlier gas safety legislation, the changes made by GSIUR 1998 are generally modest eg to cater for further experience from the opening up of the domestic gas supply market. However, some changes, particularly those affecting landlords' duties, are more significant, where earlier legal loopholes, exploited by some landlords in order to circumvent their responsibilities have been addressed (see paragraphs 50-52).

3 The regulations cover, in particular: gas systems; gas appliances and flues in certain domestic premises; commercial premises like offices; shops and hotels; and holiday homes eg chalets, caravans, mobile homes and boats on inland waterways.

that do yer

 

[corgiman]

Thats my dad

 

[geoff@cetltd]

OK, it's a bit yesterdaay now, but who out of you CORGI fitters can tell me why the (new) Puma FSC board in the first photo can't possibly work
- photo 1

And alsohow any CORGI fitter with a clear conscience could fit a new Puma Mod pcb which has a high chance of ending up like photo2

 

[geoff@cetltd]

[quote="kevplumb

at this time CORGI is the only class of persons approved by the HSE[/quote]

in relation to paid work

Where do they say that someone working on their own appliance must be approver ?

As it happens, I was at the HSE meeting on gas safety a few years ago and I quizzed the person in charge of that aspect and the HSE do not have an objection to people working on their own appliance

 

[Softus]

that do yer

Not yet kev! Where did you extract this text from - clearly it wasn't the GSIUR 1998.

Where do they say that someone working on their own appliance must be approved?

It doesn't say that anywhere in the legislation raden - this is a slightly worn out element of the "who can and who can't" discussion, not that you were to know that, perhaps. GSIUR 1998 states that the person working on the appliance must be "competent", and, if it is a business (I'm paraphrasing here), then also CORGI registered. Which is why...

...the HSE do not have an objection to people working on their own appliance.

I would be utterly ineffective if they did have an objection, because they don't make or alter the law without due parliamentary process.

 

[KeithM]

Raden; Forgive me if I'm not understanding you right but are you encouraging DIY gas work?

 

[kevplumb]

Not yet kev! Where did you extract this text from - clearly it wasn't the GSIUR 1998.

its the guidance notes for the 98 amendments

 

[Softus]

Raden; Forgive me if I'm not understanding you right but are you encouraging DIY gas work?

KeithM, this is now a very old argument on the forum.

This is a DIY site where people come to find some knowledge in order to either solve a problem or do a job themselves. The relevant legislation permits DIY gas work, as long as the dwelling is not let out, but everyone here is careful not to be free and easy with information that could endanger person or property.

raden's question was merely clarifying something that needed clarifying - if I've got that wrong then I'm sure he'll tell me - and I've not seen any irresponsible posts from him on this forum.

its the guidance notes for the 98 amendments

Hmmmm, strokey beardy moment - Shirley you're not saying that these equate to regulations themselves kev?!

 

[KeithM]

Softus; I'm a brand new member on this forum and Radens comments just jumped out at me!

I have no intention of bringing up old comments to frustrate regular users, I apologise.