Is my electrician legall required to install a new CU ?

[LeeDowner]

I want some electrical work doing at my house, but my electrician says he can't do anything unless he changes my old Wylex fuse board for a new Consumer Unit, he can't sign the work off as safe when he would know at the time of completing the work that my Fuse Board is well out of date.

Is it true that he isn't allowed to touch anything unless he also updates my CU ? Can't he advise me to change it and then I sign something to say I understand it's out of date and needs updating ? Thus, keeping him in the clear should my house explode.

Thanks.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I want some electrical work doing at my house,

Most crucial Q: - what is the work?

The Wiring Regulations now require, in practice, sockets, and any cables buried in walls, to have RCD protection, so depending on the scope of the work you are having done that might be awkward to arrange except by replacing the CU.

but my electrician says he can't do anything unless he changes my old Wylex fuse board for a new Consumer Unit, he can't sign the work off as safe when he would know at the time of completing the work that my Fuse Board is well out of date.

You can still buy new ones - how out of date can they be?



You might like to ask the electrician that...

To be fair he might just be taking the lazy way out of trying to explain to you that replacing the CU will be the only sensible way to comply with the Wiring Regulations for new circuits/new cables/new sockets, but it's not a good way to go about things. Does it mean he always looks for lazy ways out of problems? Does it mean he doesn't respect his customers? Does it mean he'd had a tiring day/week and at that moment couldn't face any more eyes glazing over as he tried to explain it properly?

Is it true that he isn't allowed to touch anything unless he also updates my CU ?

Depends what you mean by "touch".

Can't he advise me to change it and then I sign something to say I understand it's out of date and needs updating ? Thus, keeping him in the clear should my house explode.

No.

1. There is no absolute legal requirement to comply with the Wiring Regulations, but...
2. ... There is one for reasonable provision for safety, and complying with the Wiring Regulations is by far and away the easiest way to comply with the law.
3. ... If the electrician is a member of NICEIC, NAPIT etc (he should be) then the terms of his membership require him to comply with the Wiring Regulations.

Replacing it would be a good thing to do, but it doesn't "need" replacing, unless it's faulty. The biggest problem is lack of RCD protection, and that's not easy to retro-fit to an installation like yours in a way which complies with the Wiring Regulations except by replacing the CU, but in and of itself it is perfectly OK as long as it's in working order.

There is no requirement to upgrade old installations to current standards.

Were it mine I'd want it replaced, but be wary of anybody who tells you it must be replaced if it's undamaged.

And be wary of anybody who proposes to replace it without doing testing first, in case you have faults which will become real problems with a new CU.

 

[viewer]

It's not about "out of date", but whether it is safe (or practical) to do what you want. You cannot give him a waiver, nor can he accept one. This is not just for electrical work; it is illegal to make an agreement of any kind which involves one partner or the other in the commission of an offence. If s/he leaves a situation which in their professional opinion is unsafe then they are guilty of an offence and you will be an accomplice to the act.

 

[LeeDowner]

I've asked him to remove a couple of sockets that are currently mounted on skirting board then move some new ones up onto the wall just above the old locations. I've also asked him to fit 2 new lights and provide an earth connection to my gas supply. He's recommended installing a new cooker circuit aswell although I'm not sure it needs replacing, the current circuit works fine.

I would have a new CU but some of the wiring around the house is old and I've been reading up on nuisance tripping of new CU's when connected to old wiring, so I'd rather stick with what I have and if I ever change to a new CU, I'll get the house re-wired at the same time.

Sounds like the wiring regs mean he has to install a new CU then, but the only cables he would be installing is the cooker circuit. If I remove that from the job would he be allowed to do the rest ?

He says the current board was out of date in 1980.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Chri5]

The sockets and cabling must be on an rcd, he could supply a small cu just for the sockets.

The issue being that for £150-£200 more when could replace the old cu and all cables would be in the one cu and all protected by rcd.

On more modern boards without rcd sometimes a rcbo (a mcb with rcd mixed function) could simply be swapped with the old mcb.

The guy isn't spinning you a tale, it's the regs and he HAS to work to those.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I've asked him to remove a couple of sockets that are currently mounted on skirting board then move some new ones up onto the wall just above the old locations.

Those sockets will require RCD protection, as will the cable buried in the wall.

I've also asked him to fit 2 new lights

If you're also having new switches then the cables for those (assuming you want them under the plaster) will require RCD protection.

He's recommended installing a new cooker circuit aswell although I'm not sure it needs replacing, the current circuit works fine.

Driving without a seat belt would have worked fine for me for the last 30-40 years.

Did he say why he's recommending a new circuit?

I would have a new CU but some of the wiring around the house is old and I've been reading up on nuisance tripping of new CU's when connected to old wiring,

That can be checked in advance.

but the only cables he would be installing is the cooker circuit. If I remove that from the job would he be allowed to do the rest ?

See above - are you really going to have any new cables running on the surface of the walls?

He says the current board was out of date in 1980.

So was this, by several years:

Ask him why they still make and sell your type of fuseboard.

 

[securespark]

Out of date in 1980?

Ask him what happened in 1980 to make it out of date....

 

[NewOrder]

It annoys me when electricians look at wylex boards and start moaning how out of date they are!. My office has just passes its 5 year inspection, I admit it is only a 2 way Wylex providing power to the alarm, sockets and light but it has just passed the inspection with flying colours. Despite it having a 2 way fused wylex.

We have standard Wylex 8 way in our house, and I will ask the spark to replace it when we get round to having the extra sockets put in, not because it needs replacing but because it is simply the easiest way to make the new sockets compliant (e.g RCD protection).

Also if your sockets on the boards, I would question if the wiring behind it is PVC or VIR although I assume your spark has already checked the cables and is happy with them.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

At the end of the you do not require a new consumer unit.
What you do need, is to have the additional work protected by RCD.
This can be achieved by protecting the addition separately or protecting the whole circuit or the whole installation.
In my experience although it would be more costly on the labour side to have new CU installed, there could be a saving on material costs.
I would be concerned regarding the light circuits, as they can often cause problems on RCDs if the circuit has been split but the neutral shared.
You need to have this checked prior to change or you will have to have all lighting circuits on same split.
As for new cooker circuit, have you asked the reason why it needs replacing? Even though it works it may still not be suitable/safe for continued service.

 

[RF Lighting]

I've been in this trade 15 years now, and have never installed a BS3036 wylex board in all that time, so I'd say they're at least 15 years out of date.

I don't quite know who wylex are still selling their old boards to. Perhaps they've just got a massive warehouse full of old stock that no body has wanted to buy for the last 15 years?

 

[NewOrder]

Something like my office, has a wylex two way.

The wiring consists of :-
Two sockets in conduit
A light in conduit

Even by 17th edition I am pretty sure although a late 80's install it would still meet the regulations as the cable is not buried behind anything so no RCD protection required?

I also use it for repairing PCs, and a trip could disastrous so wired fuses are a benefit as they won't break every time a lamp fails.

So I guess that is what the market is, very tiny office type rooms which are on a separate meter.

 

[RF Lighting]

It's border line as to whether your sockets should have RCD protection, but as for nusiance tripping, a type C circuit breaker won't be bothered by a lamp failing. If you're really against circuit breakers, then cartridge fuses are the soloution.

 

[securespark]

I've been in this trade 15 years now, and have never installed a BS3036 wylex board in all that time

A decade must make all the difference....

I were brought up on 'em cocker!

 

[RF Lighting]

You're a lot older than me don't forget

 

[NewOrder]

It is a commercial building don't forget too, so I also think the regulations are different?