Is my plumber having a laugh?

[suityou91]

My boiler is giving an intermittent L/F code. This is to do with ignition, right?
So the plumber came round, had a look and said the boiler is knackered because of "shedding" in the main heat exchanger. He said this would cause overheating, which would cause the boiler to lock out.

The only problems with this conclusion are :

He did not witness the fault code.
The fault code for overheating is L9 and not L/F
A blocked heat exchanger doesn't prevent ignition, rather the fault occurs after a successful ignition.

I would have thought he would examine the condensation pipe and trap first, no? Then maybe the igniter and flame detector?

So, is he having a laugh?

 

[kidgreen61]

Isar/Icos?

 

[suityou91]

Isar/Icos?

Evo HE C30

 

[suityou91]

Well if you guys don't know, what chance have I got?

 

[jj4091]

Ideal Evo HE C30 l/f code seems you need a heating engineer

 

[kidgreen61]

We do know, we're not permitted to give advice in this forum.

 

[HootingOwl]

It's a previous generation Ideal boiler that is reaching the end of its useful service life. How much are you willing to spend on it to get it repaired and how many more years do you want to get out of the appliance? Repaired one of these a few months back with the same symptoms - I did all the things you mentioned but the fault persisted. I eventually fitted new parts to repair and gave them a bill for 300 quid, of which 210 was for parts.
This is where it is useful to have had your boiler serviced every year by the same person - that relationship means they will be on your side in times like this.

Most people in this situation will go out and find the cheapest replacement mob and be posting the same question in ten years' time. Independents generally like the challenge of resurrecting the dead and helping their customers out. Might be worth asking around for someone local who works for themselves.

 

[suityou91]

It's a previous generation Ideal boiler that is reaching the end of its useful service life. How much are you willing to spend on it to get it repaired and how many more years do you want to get out of the appliance? Repaired one of these a few months back with the same symptoms - I did all the things you mentioned but the fault persisted. I eventually fitted new parts to repair and gave them a bill for 300 quid, of which 210 was for parts.
This is where it is useful to have had your boiler serviced every year by the same person - that relationship means they will be on your side in times like this.

Most people in this situation will go out and find the cheapest replacement mob and be posting the same question in ten years' time. Independents generally like the challenge of resurrecting the dead and helping their customers out. Might be worth asking around for someone local who works for themselves.

I would like very much for a plumber to service it. If a plumber arrives, pokes around for a few minutes and then pronounces the boiler as knackered without servicing it, then charges me £60 then I do feel narked. If again in the same breath he then announces that "they are doing a special on new boilers at the moment" it piques my cynicism.

I would think that you would have to partially dismantle the boiler to examine the auxilliary components such as the igniter, flame detection sensor etc before arriving at any meaningful conclusion.

But before I can successfully arrive at this conclusion, as I am not a plumber, I come here first to see if my suspicions are warranted or if I am being too harsh on the plumber. This is what I am after. Is he a boiler salesman, or is he genuinely telling the truth ... I.e. it's not worth my time servicing this boiler, so I will cut to the chase and sell you a new one... Or is it worth giving a service a try before condemning it?

 

[kidgreen61]

A lot gas bods in here are more than happy to regale you with stories of calls where "it just needs a service" and we've turned up to find serious problems with the boiler.
Using a motoring analogy, it's a bit like your head gasket gone/gearbox stuffed/water pump failed, and expecting "a service" to cure the problem, when in fact the vehicle needs a repair.
I suggest you ask someone competent to have a look, and give you a price to put it right, they have every right not to take the job on, just as you have every right to disagree with them, or ask someone else.

 

[dilalio]

I would like very much for a plumber to service it. If a plumber arrives, pokes around for a few minutes and then pronounces the boiler as knackered without servicing it, then charges me £60 then I do feel narked. If again in the same breath he then announces that "they are doing a special on new boilers at the moment" it piques my cynicism.

I would think that you would have to partially dismantle the boiler to examine the auxilliary components such as the igniter, flame detection sensor etc before arriving at any meaningful conclusion.

But before I can successfully arrive at this conclusion, as I am not a plumber, I come here first to see if my suspicions are warranted or if I am being too harsh on the plumber. This is what I am after. Is he a boiler salesman, or is he genuinely telling the truth ... I.e. it's not worth my time servicing this boiler, so I will cut to the chase and sell you a new one... Or is it worth giving a service a try before condemning it?

For a start, a plumber is not what you need. It would be a gas safe engineer.
I am both and am glad I'm not either to you.
Your attitude would send most to the "block this number" facility on their phone.
I guess you won't accept this and will need to post something that defends your stance, however, it's how it is and you are the one in need, not the prospective gse.

 

[FiremanT]

To be fair, the plumber was wrong, and was clearly not interested in repairing.

@suityou91 : When attending a fault condition one should follow a structured process, which , for me, starts with careful “questioning the user”. ( whereupon we get some stupid answers).

Often , even before a spanner is lifted, I point out that the boiler is old, my warranty only extends to any part I supplied and fitted, and there is no guarantee that only one fault exists. I ask if they are prepared to spend money on a potentially unsatisfactory outcome?

The problem with your attitude is that you expect us, from a keyboard, to identify a fault that a guy in front of the boiler couldn’t.
If we were to list the possible issues, all you would have is a , erm, a list of possible issues.
As has been pointed out, it is not allowed to give actual gas advice.

 

[suityou91]

A lot gas bods in here are more than happy to regale you with stories of calls where "it just needs a service" and we've turned up to find serious problems with the boiler.
Using a motoring analogy, it's a bit like your head gasket gone/gearbox stuffed/water pump failed, and expecting "a service" to cure the problem, when in fact the vehicle needs a repair.
I suggest you ask someone competent to have a look, and give you a price to put it right, they have every right not to take the job on, just as you have every right to disagree with them, or ask someone else.

And to take you analogy one step further, it would be like someone arriving at this diagnosis without first lifting the bonnet.
Funnily enough I found a service kit online for the boiler in question and all it contains is some gaskets, a sparking electrode and a flame detector. Seems that a service would be the logical first step to rule stuff out. Or at least lifting the bonnet to have a look at the components.

 

[suityou91]

To be fair, the plumber was wrong, and was clearly not interested in repairing.

@suityou91 : When attending a fault condition one should follow a structured process, which , for me, starts with careful “questioning the user”. ( whereupon we get some stupid answers).

Often , even before a spanner is lifted, I point out that the boiler is old, my warranty only extends to any part I supplied and fitted, and there is no guarantee that only one fault exists. I ask if they are prepared to spend money on a potentially unsatisfactory outcome?

The problem with your attitude is that you expect us, from a keyboard, to identify a fault that a guy in front of the boiler couldn’t.
If we were to list the possible issues, all you would have is a , erm, a list of possible issues.
As has been pointed out, it is not allowed to give actual gas advice.

If my attitude is offensive because I am disappointed with being conned then I think it is your expectations of what makes a good customer that may need need recalibrating.

He didn't even kick the tyres, charged me for the priviledge of seeing his face and then told me I needed to replace the boiler he didn't examine.

 

[FiremanT]

Before you start questioning my expectations, I suggest that you actually read and absorb what I wrote.

 

[Agile]

Even by just posting on here you are giving the impression that you are expecting a free diagnosis by someone who has never seen your boiler.

The only way that a boiler fault can be diagnosed is from in front of the boiler. [ From where some simple preliminary tests can be done. ]

Any competent boiler engineer would want to make a diagnostic charge for the diagnosis. Most would expect to charge at least £84 plus any parking charges.

Most boiler engineers will be happy to discuss their charging policy before visiting. I always diagnose faults at a fixed fee. It seems wrong to me to charge by the hour so that someone who is very slow will charge more. I usually expect to diagnose most faults within 20 minutes. But two took me about three hours. One because I had made a mistake with my method for doing a simple test.

Most would expect to correctly diagnose the fault, charge for the diagnosis, and quote to complete the repairs needed.

Some are not so good at diagnosis as that needs a higher level of competence and experience. Hopefully anyone who fails to correctly diagnose the fault would not expect to make any more than a most basic charge to cover the costs of visiting, perhaps just £36 for example.

You seem to expect that your boiler only has a very minor fault. Many people have that false expectation that their boiler, car or TV only has a minor ( and cheap to repair ) fault. In the real world that is not always the case.
The fault could even be with the gas supply and nothing to do with the boiler itself !

Many boiler manufacturers have their own team of engineers and many do a fixed price repair. But they are mostly about £300 or more now so not so good if it is really only a minor fault.

To make you laugh I will tell you about an experience which I had which made me laugh. A solicitor's wife called me to their boiler on the third floor. I identified the gas supply was seriously impaired and asked her if there was any emergency gas valve in her flat. She was quite sure there was not.

The meter was outside and 3m from the building with the pipe going under the garden. I explained to her that I would need to inspect the underground pipe.

Her husband then spent an hour or more digging up the pipe as a £15 an hour job instead of his usual £300 an hour solicitor job.

I returned and checked the underground pipe which was OK. Gong back into his flat I traced the boiler gas supply pipe around the kitchen. It ran through a cupboard stuffed full of plastic bags. Removing the bags I found the emergency control valve which had over time been moved downwards and had almost completely turned off !