Is plumbing still a trade?

[mark vincent]

A friend of mine has replumbed his own house using plastic pipe and push fit connections, he is not a plumber by trade but he says with all the modern plastic fittings available to-day domestic plumbing is easy, he says there is no need to use a blow torch or solder.

He decided to have a go himself after getting outrageous quotes from local tradesmen, he got most of his information on plumbing from a diy book from the local library, if it is that easy why do plumbers charge so much.

 

[seco services]

what should they charge an hour ?

 

[Belboz]

I am not a plumber but I have a decent knowledge of the BASICS.

As far as I am concerned, plumbing is still a trade and should ever be regarded as such.

Being able to put a few push-fit joints and plastic pipe in a domestic property doesn't make you a plumber and there is a hell of a lot more to plumbing than doing a few pipe runs.

Professional Plumbers have a sound knowledge of a very wide variety of related matters. To name but a few, does your friend have an intimate knowledge of building regs, water regs, pipe sizings, flow rates, etc etc?

Has he got central heating? If so, is it all electric? If not, does he have an intimate knowledge of boilers//cylinders, pumps, tanks and related pipework? Whilst it may be a Corgi//Capita [!!!] who does the gas work, plumbers do the majority of the pipework and fittings.

No disrespect to you nor your friend. I've done a bit of pipework myself. However, IMHO, there is NO substitute for an experienced professional who can truly be termed a Plumber with all the knowledge and expertise that label carries.

When [if] something goes t*ts up, I presume that the professional will be the one who attends to rectify the errors//problems.

In the words of Alexander Pope,

"A little learning is a dangerous thing" [oft misquoted as 'knowledge']

Of course, that's only MY opinion. I take my hat off to all true professional tradespersons - many of whom give their time to also post on here and impart their knowledge to those of us who lack the experience and knowledge they hold.

As for money, I refer you back to one of my earlier posts about charges for professional services and the tale of the bank vault.

 

[mark vincent]

Obviously there are safety issues as regards gas fittings and he is an electrician by trade.

 

[seco services]

so he should know why we charge what we do.
if he runs his own business

 

[mattylad]

Of course it is still a trade, always has been always will.

Good on your mate, but there are many millions of people that cannot
do their own plumbing, either because they do not know how to or dare not try it.
Either way, the basic trades will not disappear just because a few of us manage to DIY.

 

[namsag]

With all this easy to to do diy plastic and push fit it would be better if the plumbers retrained as plasterers that way they will still be busy repairing all the damage when the fitting jump off

 

[mattylad]

Perhaps also the gas fitters will be better off retraining as teachers or something.

When Capita start making a mess of things its going to be hell for them anyway

 

[noseall]

what a daft question.

of course plumbing is a trade.

there is more to plumbing than fitting pipework.

i want to learn more about leadwork, mainly due to the roofing work i do.

i would like to see a plastic pipe installer have a go at the real skills of the trade.

 

[Woodster66]

Obviously there are safety issues as regards gas fittings and he is an electrician by trade.

Well if he is an electrician, he will be used to lifting floor boards, chasing out walls and drilling out joists etc. Which is good, but to question if plumbing is a trade is the same as asking if a sparks is a trade as well then, after all I have some knowledge of electrics and with a book from the library, I re-wired my own house, it was easy enough in MHO, all I did then was just have it inspected by a PROFESSIONAL to make sure everything was safe and conformed to current regs. Saved me a fortune, but I wouldn't dismiss an electricians job as not a trade and if I could have afforded a professional at the time then I would have paid for a professional to do the job, I can also do basic plumbing yet I am not a plumber but again I wouldn't dismiss plumbing as not a trade. It is only because at the time, I could not afford to employ a professional to do the work, it needed doing ASAP and so I had to do it myself!

Many people cannot carry out plumbing or electrical work, even if its changing a fuse in some cases, so every aspect of the building trade is a TRADE regardless.

And it always annoys me when people question charges by professionals, granted there are some fly by night people out there ready to get what they can out of a client, but the honest trade's person is charging what the job is worth and you cant buy experience! What would you say if you went into work and your employer said I am not paying you your normal rate today, I'm gonna cut it because I think your not worth that amount and I can do your job anyway!

 

[mark vincent]

It all depends how you define a professional, doesn't it. A tradesman is some one who is skilled in one aspect of labouring, the problem to day is anyone can do a weeks course in plumbing or bricklaying or what ever and then set himself up as a 'professional' years ago you had to do a proper apprenticeship.

 

[Gasguru]

Bet'cha your firends plumbing doesn't comply with the water regulations or the manufacturers installation guidelines.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Water-Regulations-Guide-Laurrie-Young/dp/0953970809

It's always easy to assume a trades a piece of p**s....if plumbing was dead simple how come so many pro's make a complete hash of it. Only a fraction of 1% of homes are fully compliant.

 

[Woodster66]

It all depends how you define a professional, doesn't it. A tradesman is some one who is skilled in one aspect of labouring, the problem to day is anyone can do a weeks course in plumbing or bricklaying or what ever and then set himself up as a 'professional' years ago you had to do a proper apprenticeship.

A weeks course in plumbing doesn't make you a fully qualified plumber, it may make you a professional in the meaning of the word i.e you do it for a living and it is your main occupation but it doesn't necessarily mean that you are fully qualified and can competently do the job in question!

Most week courses only show you the basics and thats it, there are many aspects to the job and years of experience until you can truly be fully qualified in a trade!

It is a shame that the old apprenticeships have gone by the wayside and have been replaced by week or weekend courses that people do and think that they are fully qualified to do the job, it often ends up in shoddy workmanship and dangerous practices IMHO!

The guy I brought my house off thought he was a plumber and builder of sorts just because he thought he was good at DIY, when we moved in the gas pipe was not soldered properly which could have blew the house up, the plumbing was terrible and so was the electrics, yes, he went on various courses apparently, so I found out from the neighbor, and thought he was fully qualified, he built a brick archway for someone up the road over their front gate a few days later it collapsed, thankfully no-one was by it when it fell down, he also built an extension for a local person......It devalued the whole property because it was so bad and dangerous and I had to re plumb and rewire my whole house! But just because I did it myself didn't make me qualified or make me a tradesman in either trade!

 

[dGray]

I'm a DIYer and would never use speedfit. Doesn't it have a shorter lifespan, and cannot carry hot water in heating systems?? I think it just shows a bodge and is nothing to be proud of. Just shows you were ripped off in the shop. -especially if youve done a whole house!!

It also reduces the flow rate as the pipe cavities are much reduced. I'd definitely reduce a houses value if it was all speedfit.

Copper pipe is cheaper to connect, longer lasting, and best of all so much more satisfying to use.

I do think plumbers charge way too much. but the good ones are reasonable in advising and signing off simple work. gas in another matter...

 

[monster82]

Push fit plumbing is marginaly easier than using copper,you dont have to be anywhere near aproaching a professional to be able to solder a copper fitting properly particulary if you're using integral ring fittings.New installations is some of the least complicated work in labour terms,however the devils in the detail.First year apprentices can be left to fit a central heating system after relatively little experience,but they won't be designing it so that it peforms adaquately and conforms to building regs .The same can be said about many trades.You are not paying for someone,in this instance,to merely chuck the pipe in,hang a few rads fit the boiler.A decent pro will do the job quickly,neatly,work to all the current standards and regulations,be able to notify with building control and guarantee it.That is what you pay for,labour only a fraction of the bill.