Is there a common standard for fitting a shower hose wall outlet

[Kenn7]

Hi All
I'm building a new walk in shower and I'm fitting a lace handled single lever concealed shower mixer valve, and I wanted to bring its output through a simple circular shower wall outlet with a standard hose attachment pointing vertically downward.

I will need to fit all internal plumbing before I fit the tile backer board, tank and tile the wall. So, I need to know the most common standards used.

By looking at what's available I get the impression that the most common standard for this type of outlet is a 1/2" male BSP that fits into a female embedded in the wall, flush with the finished tile surface. Is this so?

If so, I'm a bit uncertain as to how to screw the outlet into the female fitting, embedded in the wall, such that you ensure the hose attachment is pointing vertically down at the point when the thread tightens.

I would be very greatfull if anybody could give me advise.

 

[Madrab]

It's all about the thread lock you use (PTFE Tape/Thread/Fluid etc) and then having a feel for when it's tight enough and not going to leak. May take a few attempts.

I use 6 wraps of gas PTFE tape on the male end and then tighten that into a wall plate elbow screwed onto the wall for max support.

 

[foxhole]

My concealed mixer came with required parts to assemble , hose attachment protruded thru wall and was then tiled with a grub screw to secure final connector for hose.Like this https://www.screwfix.com/p/aqualisa...q5ZjGc4ycI3YzDCMGi8aAt1-EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
For fixed shower heads you can get a threaded spacer section in a variety of sizes from plumbers merchant which allow you to ajust for a flush finish.
For embedded unit this is a simple easy to use solution.
Give a strong platform for shower arm where used.https://www.parkstreetbathrooms.com...95L6Ze0h72IVOwHrlQdewjexdWjIisMwaAk5PEALw_wcB

 

[Kenn7]

Thanks for the advice...

foxhole; I did see the push fit model at Screwfix, but wasn't sure because it got quite a low star rating and because it seemed to be non standard; I would like some future choice.

Madrab; I take your point about plenty of PTFE Tape and if it's trial and error I can handle that. But I'm not sure what you mean about tightening the male end into a wall plate elbow screwed onto the wall for max support. On the outlets I saw the male end could be screwed out of the elbow and screwed into the femal connector in the wall laving a 1/2" male BSP sticking out of the wall. Then the famale of the elbow screwed onto this until tight (I guess this is where trial and error would play it's part), then a flange could be pushed back to the tiles. But there was no other wall plate... In another I saw the male seemed to be fixed to the outlet elbow, so I assumed it would simply screw into the wall mounted female untill tight, couldn't see if the flange could be pushed forward and back, but I assume so. (Again, PTFE pluss trial and error could ensure it seals and ends up verticle). One of the things that confussed me was a nut on the male thread on the back of many of the outlet elbows. It seemed to require tightening (like a cistern input coupler) after being fitted, but the back of a shower wall output can't be accessed for tightening after it is fitted. Is this optional part?

 

[foxhole]

Nothing non standard there.

 

[just pumps]

Loctite 55 or 577.

 

[just pumps]

Are you missing one of these?
https://www.screwfix.com/p/pegler-brass-compression-adapting-90-wall-plate-elbow-15mm-x/1485g

 

[just pumps]

What is a system input coupler?

 

[Madrab]

One of the things that confussed me was a nut on the male thread on the back of many of the outlet elbows. It seemed to require tightening (like a cistern input coupler) after being fitted, but the back of a shower wall output can't be accessed for tightening after it is fitted. Is this optional part?

If you have access to the back of the wall it's going onto then you can fit it that way and tighten the nut, or put it onto a plate/wooden baton that then would fix to the wall batons, then attach the supply pipe to it once it's mounted. It just broadens the possible fixing options.

 

[Kenn7]

Hi Madrab...
To answer your question; Theres is no convient access to the back of the wall. I would be prepared to cut through the bedroom wall in an emergency, but not for the initial assembly.
I have since purchased a wall outlet elbow and when I see it I can now see how it work and how to get the right adjustment. Thanks for your help.
I have now assembled the pipe work and all seemed OK, but I have found the 1/2" BSP female connections drip leak however tightly I screw the male connector in.
I put 7 wraps of PTFE tape on, but the shoulders on the male fittings are not that big and they don't seem to make a satisfactory connection with the female shoulders on the valves or connectors.
I have ordered a 600 box of mixed fibre washers from ebay that, as part, contains... 20 pieces 27 O/D x 20 I/D x 1 thick, & 20 pieces 32 O/D x 22 I/D x 1 thick. For some reason I seemed to have difficulty sourcing fibre washers that would fit over a male 1/2" BSB thread. (They all seem to be sized to fit internal female BSP connectors.)
I am now looking for good quality straight 1/2" male PSB to 15mm compression couplers that have a decent size flange for the fibre washers to sit against.
The last thing I want to be doing is pulling the wall apart from the bedroom side to fix connections in sub-standard BSP couplers.
I included some pics to illustrate the problem. (You will have to excuse the unconventional configuration; I wanted the rain-rose and the riser-rose on their own individual single lever valves)
In the close-up I took of the valve and coupler you can see how small the coupler shoulder is.
Any further advice woul be welcome.
Thanks for your help,
Ken

 

[Kenn7]

Hi just pumps,
Yes, I have used the parts you linked to.
Also, I'm not sure what your question relates to... have I mentioned a 'system input coupler' somewhere, if so I apologise, it seems to vague a turm to mean anything.
Kenn7

 

[Madrab]

I put 7 wraps of PTFE tape on, but the shoulders on the male fittings are not that big and they don't seem to make a satisfactory connection with the female shoulders on the valves or connectors.

Did you use Gas PTFE tape? If not then you need more turns on the threads. The shoulder on the male fitting has no bearing on the seal, the tape on the fitting meshes in between the threads of each fitting, creating the water seal. Gas tape is thicker, therefore needs less turns, standard tape will need at least twice the amount of turns. If you then tighten the fittings in too much it will then strip the tape out from the threads and it will weep, so it's all about feel.

For some reason I seemed to have difficulty sourcing fibre washers that would fit over a male 1/2" BSB thread. (They all seem to be sized to fit internal female BSP connectors.)

You wouldn't use a fiber washer like this, if anything you would place it into the bottom of the female fitting so the face of the male fitting can press against it, if it has a large enough platform at the bottom of the fitting to sit on and seal against, though these are usually rubber. You only use it like that, if it was a tap connector.

 

[Nige F]

Hemp and boss white

 

[Kenn7]

Madrab...
No, it was plumbers PTFE tape, though I do have gas tape. How many turns with plumbers tape? Is 14 sufficient?
My past experience with fibre washers has shown me that nothing seals a connection better, so long as they are trapped between two flanges with PTFE tape, but from your discription I can see why I couldn't source the right size.
I didn't know that if you tighten the fittings too much it would strip the tape out from the threads. This could be the source of my weeps.
I will dissmantle the valve assembly and re-make the connections trying not to over tighten them this time.
Thanks for you help,
Kenn7

Read more: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/...shower-hose-wall-outlet.526051/#ixzz5ugyA11tP

 

[Madrab]

Again it's a trial and error with the tape. Normal tape is usually double the amount of the gas tape equivalent IME.

For sure, fibre washers are great where implemented correctly but they can only be used in certain circumstances, where 2 flat flanges/faces are mating together or with tap type connectors with a flanged shoulder.

The more you tighten a fitting with PTFE tape, the more the tape is compressed/spread, it ends up that the tape between the threads isn't thick enough to fill the gap and allows water to pass through.