Is this a load bearing wall?

[russella]

Hi all,

Can anyone advise whether the wall highlighted in red below (above a stairwell) is normally holding up the ceiling above? We're in a fairly standard 1930s semi.

The wall highlighted in red is showing some pretty serious cracks, and we'd like to if possible remove and replace with a stud wall. Like all other interior non-load-bearing walls we've identified so far in our house, this wall is built of a wooden framework that's been filled in with bricks and then plastered, so I'm hoping it's either not load bearing, or certainly not holding up anything other than the ceiling in the adjacent rooms.

At the moment our plan is to find out if it's significantly load bearing, if it's only holding up the ceiling can we get a stud wall build capable of holding this same weight?

Thanks,

Russ

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

can't see your picture, what way do the joist run above the ceiling where the wall is?

 

[russella]

can't see your picture, what way do the joist run above the ceiling where the wall is?

The joists run perpendicular to the wall - that is they run from the front face of the house, over the wall in question, then over another wall in the bathroom then back to the rear of the property. Not sure if this is in one span or not (I can find out).

Thanks,

Russ

 

[RonnyRaygun]

The wall is almost certainly taking load from the joists. The joists won't span the full length of the building. They might be a single length between the external wall and the bathroom wall but ceiling joists won't span that far without an intermediate support.

A decent stud wall would support the load, no problem.

Have you thought about looking into the reasons that the wall is showing serious cracking though?

 

[russella]

Have you thought about looking into the reasons that the wall is showing serious cracking though?

We've had a surveyor in before on an unrelated issue who spotted that one of our joists supporting the second floor has bowed - he doesn't think it's going to move any further, but I'm guessing having a 4 square metres of brickword on top of it isn't helping things! The wall in question sits on a single wooden joist that sits in the external wall on one side, and appears to be somehow tied to the joist that's bowed on the other.

Thanks,

Russ

 

[KenGMac]

Russ, Hi. I have seen this problem on two occasions in recent past, one in east end of Glasgow, one in North Ayrshire. problem is that because there is only one supporting joist, there should be two side by side, if the joist fails, twists, or looses its bearing on the party wall then cracking will occur. Is there any distress to the ceiling area immediately below the wall in question? I never liked the timber frame filled with brick, good for sound proofing but ?

It should be a relatively simple job to support the existing ceiling joists, remove the offending wall and replace it with a timber frame. To achieve a similar sound proofing you may need to double sheet the plasterboard or, and include some form of sound deafening material in the new wall.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

We've had a surveyor in before on an unrelated issue who spotted that one of our joists supporting the second floor has bowed - he doesn't think it's going to move any further, but I'm guessing having a 4 square metres of brickword on top of it isn't helping things! The wall in question sits on a single wooden joist that sits in the external wall on one side, and appears to be somehow tied to the joist that's bowed on the other.

So the joist has bowed because it's carrying a point load from the joist carrying 4 square metres of masonry (and this joist has probably bowed too), which has led to the cracking. Should have been doubled up joists underneath at the very least, but then, I've seen 1930s houses with first floor brick walls built off the floorboards...

Certainly sounds like a good idea to replace and get as much load off the joists as possible. Load will be reduced significantly once brickwork is removed.

 

[russella]

but then, I've seen 1930s houses with first floor brick walls built off the floorboards...

That's exactly our place! I'm so tempted to rip out all the walls and replace with stud, but we can't cope with any more demolition.

Thanks to all for your advice on this thread, really reassuring to know i'm not on the wrong track with removing and replacing this particular wall.

Russ

 

[^woody^]

Can't you just look in the loft to see if anything rests on the wall?

Regarding cracks, are these just plaster cracks or in the wall straight through it, and are they verical, diagonal etc?

Does this wall go right down to ground floor level or just start at first floor?

But from the layout, it would be unusual for this wall to be taking any load from the ceiling joists or roof timbers

Regarding the joists, timber will deflect under load and then will either crack or stabalise. With these old places the timber joists dry affter initial occupation and any deflection takes place over the first few years and then stops. Removing the load does nothing for the joist and it will never lose it's bow, and there is very rarely a reason to remove walls built of joists unless there is ongoing overloading and movement

 

[RonnyRaygun]

I agree mostly, but unless the ceiling joists are pretty hefty (50x150) or tightly spaced, they will be overstressed if trying to span from the external wall, over the wall in question, to the wall beyond. Having said that, in reality they probably would span that far...
All this is assuming it's just loft space above...

The movement might not be ongoing, but something must have caused the "serious" cracking fairly recently, as I doubt the cracks have been there since the 1940s!

The OP hasn't said whether or not any other alterations have been made structurally, possibly below this floor, that may have caused the cracking?

Or lack of restraint to the flank wall causing movement...hipped roof spreading? Probably nothing this serious though