Is this enough info to get some quotes?

[smp50]

I am considering an extension and want to get some quotes. Is the following information, of course combined with a site visit and/or photographs of the existing elevations, enough for a builder to give me sensible figures?

Elevations:
http://i.imgur.com/dEVuF0j.png

Floor plans:
http://i.imgur.com/Kf1iu4o.png
(NB - these sketches will be tidied up first, and have dimensions marked)

Roof plans:
http://i.imgur.com/nQdSWGu.png




Or do I need to give them far more detailed instructions? I'm assuming that any builder who could take on such a job knows very well all the details and what the actual structure will be like, what is a BC-approvable job and what isn't. Do I need to specify absolutely everything, e.g. all the figures relating to foundation structure, to-the-brick wall layouts, fine details of roof structure, etc???

Or do we just give them outline plans such as these and the builder can/will improvise the details?


Thanks,

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Sigh

 

[Nozzle]

You need an architect or a technician. The drawings you have are what the architect or technician takes away and comes back to you with the meat and two veg of the job.

Nozzle

 

[smp50]

You need an architect or a technician. The drawings you have are what the architect or technician takes away and comes back to you with the meat and two veg of the job.

Nozzle

To what level of detail does the architect micro-manage the builder's work, typically? I've had a look at the plans produced by an architect for two friends' projects (one was only single storey) and there wasn't a lot to them (especially for the ~3k it cost), just dimensions and a few notes. From those, I presumed, the builder filled in the details with what he knew to be good practice ?

 

[^woody^]

Crap designers just put enough information to pass building regs, and then let the builder work most of the stuff out. The client pays extra for all that working out, but he does not know it at the time.

Good designers actually specify how the thing will be built. So the builder does not have to charge extra for his time and for his thinking.

 

[smp50]

Crap designers just put enough information to pass building regs, and then let the builder work most of the stuff out. The client pays extra for all that working out, but he does not know it at the time.

Good designers actually specify how the thing will be built. So the builder does not have to charge extra for his time and for his thinking.

How would an ignorant client like myself notice that arrangement, is there any way to tell? I assume the builder is usually happy to charge extra so he won't complain and alert the client to the lacking plans, right?

 

[^woody^]

How would an ignorant client like myself notice

You tell whoever is designing it that you don't just want the bare minimum detail on your drawings, but want it properly detailed to allow the builder to give accurate quotes and then build it without any guesswork - because you don't want to be charged extra by a builder for lack of detailed plans.

If the designer then gives a single grumble, or wants to charge extra, then he is a crap designer and it might be worth looking elsewhere.

Your contact is for a set of plans for any statutory permissions and for an extension to be built to a design, and not just a set of plans.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

Agree, you need detailed drawings and specifications of all the material used on the job, as most of it is subject to approval by your local BC, and Architects know this as otherwise the plans may not be approved, all that should be specified on drawing, right down to minute details, so that your builder doesn't quote you on best material and then starts using cheaper or substandard materials. That is what your Architect needs to do. He should also include any special structural details that can get sorted out for you from associates or other a structural engineers, and present you a complete package. So you don't get head aches.

As for pricing a job, many people simply take the floor area and multiply that by a typical construction cost for that area, these cost factors are based on things like flat roof, tiled roof, DG, area, type of construction i.e. brick and cavity wall with insulation etc etc. and are summed up as an average cost factor, so for example a 120 sq feet floor area may cost x amount per sq foot, this figure varies between regions and London being the most expensive, but is a good way to work out a ball park figure for an overall cost.

 

[smp50]

You tell whoever is designing it that you don't just want the bare minimum detail on your drawings, but want it properly detailed to allow the builder to give accurate quotes and then build it without any guesswork - because you don't want to be charged extra by a builder for lack of detailed plans.

If the designer then gives a single grumble, or wants to charge extra, then he is a crap designer and it might be worth looking elsewhere.

Your contact is for a set of plans for any statutory permissions and for an extension to be built to a design, and not just a set of plans.

Do these kind of plans go down to the mm, instructing on brick spacing, exact cuts for joinery, and things like that? I would also worry about insulting a builder by giving him Lego-style plans for something he could hopefully do in his sleep.

Agree, you need detailed drawings and specifications of all the material used on the job, as most of it is subject to approval by your local BC, and Architects know this as otherwise the plans may not be approved, all that should be specified on drawing, right down to minute details, so that your builder doesn't quote you on best material and then starts using cheaper or substandard materials. That is what your Architect needs to do. He should also include any special structural details that can get sorted out for you from associates or other a structural engineers, and present you a complete package. So you don't get head aches.

As for pricing a job, many people simply take the floor area and multiply that by a typical construction cost for that area, these cost factors are based on things like flat roof, tiled roof, DG, area, type of construction i.e. brick and cavity wall with insulation etc etc. and are summed up as an average cost factor, so for example a 120 sq feet floor area may cost x amount per sq foot, this figure varies between regions and London being the most expensive, but is a good way to work out a ball park figure for an overall cost.

So estimates I get are all going to be about the same, anyway, really? I.e. they don't really depend very much (if we're talking a 50k project anyway) on the exact spec?

The architects I've met so far were full of their own ambition about the project and had lots of, "how about..." ideas which I didn't like very much;I worry somewhat that I'd struggle to reign him in and he would end up planning me an unnecessarily expensive project, and spending my money quite freely. In that way, using an architect could end up costing me more money than if I didn't.

Then again, maybe builders are prone to the same temptations - doing things more expensively where possible - so it could be a problem I have to face no matter what.

 

[^woody^]

Do these kind of plans go down to the mm, instructing on brick spacing, exact cuts for joinery, and things like that?

There are many existing standards for things like that, and these standards will be either referenced directly or implied in a specification.

The plans should state which standard will apply, so where there is a choice, the designer needs to state which standard to use, and if not his alternative method or requirements.

Common problems are things like floors and ceilings not lining through to existing, as the designer fails to specifiy correct timber sizes, or the builder thinks its one size but when it comes to build a different size is needed - so who pays for the timber already ordered?

Designers love to draw beams, but dont say where they will be positioned. You then get corners sticking out of roofs or beams below floors when the client expected them to be hidden.

Is a cut roof more economical or beneficial to a trussed roof? What's the best covering for a flat roof in a particular location? Those are design issues not builder's decisions based on what's on offer down at the merchants at that time.

The builder should be able to rely on the plans being correct, and materials and their quantities should be able to be ordered from the details on the plans. There should be certainty, and not guesswork, and no decisions to be made once the plans are drawn.