Is this JB safe?

[Simc101]

Hi all,
I’m looking to replace a pendant with 4 downlights in a bedroom at my Dad’s place. The wiring is from the 60s, a single lighting circuit for the whole 3 bed house with no earth. All the first floor lights are radial spurs fed from a single Bakelite JB in the loft.
Bathroom downlights and integrated extractor were added a few years ago using a second JB.
Is it safe to consider taking the existing feed to the bedroom pendant and change that to the first downlight in a daisy chain? The combined load is probably 30% the load of the existing single bulb.
I’ve sought some AI advice but it suggests either a new dedicated circuit from the CU which although obviously a safer option, could work out expensive just to add some downlights. A full rewire is probably overdue although the last electrician who fitted a new CU last year said the wiring was in surprisingly good condition. My dad is 93 next week and doesn’t really want all the mess, upheaval and expense of a full rewire at his time of life.
So could it be done - plastic body downlights of course. Or is the existing setup with multiple lights from a single JB a risk that should be addressed before anything else?
TIA for any advice

 

[AndyPRK]

It looks fine to me.

Dunno why you want downlights really. But you could take a connection from the center of the room if you can?

Using LED downlights, to keep the load down, heat down, and running costs down

 

[Murdochcat]

Unless i can’t see it are there any earth / cpc cables in those lighting cables?

If there aren’t that would suggest the cabling is at least 60 years old

What did the spark note on the EIC?

 

[Scally-Ho]

Unless i can’t see it are there any earth / cpc cables in those lighting cables?

If there aren’t that would suggest the cabling is at least 60 years old

What did the spark note on the EIC?

IMO the presence of the old tarnished buckle clips suggests it at least 60yrs old as an installation.

 

[Simc101]

Didn’t see the report, just commented to my Dad while doing the CU.
Yes, it’s the original cabling from 1961, no earth.

I’ve just had another look in the loft and the bathroom lighting and extraction is fed from an FCU in the airing cupboard to the bathroom switch. So less load on the lighting circuit I guess.
Could I take power from there or ok to just use the existing feed to the pendant?

 

[ebee]

You can still buy buckle clips today - if you want too, but not as easy to find as they once were.
Age is only one indication, some cables of "old age" might actually be safe for continues service!

 

[morqthana]

Unless i can’t see it are there any earth / cpc cables in those lighting cables?

Sorry - just realised those are the new cables, nothing to do with the old lighting wiring.

Which means....

Bathroom downlights and integrated extractor were added a few years ago using a second JB.

Added by someone who didn't bother to connect the earths.

 

[Simc101]

Ah, this is for the bathroom lights + fan. All powered from an FCU. Added maybe 10 years ago.
Nope, earths are just folded back. If it’s from an FCU, why wouldn’t they use the earths?

 

[morqthana]

why wouldn’t they use the earths?

Because they were in a hurry to get back to their horse?

 

[ebee]

Because they were in a hurry to get back to their horse?

Yes I did like that comment

 

[Murdochcat]

Because they were in a hurry to get back to their horse?

Because they don’t understand the regulations probably

 

[flameport]

it suggests either a new dedicated circuit from the CU

That is the correct option, assuming the consumer unit has Type A RCDs or RCBOs.

a single lighting circuit for the whole 3 bed house with no earth.

That cannot be extended or modified in accordance with BS7671, as a protective conductor is required at every point.

A full rewire is probably overdue

A full rewire was due several decades ago.

Doing anything with that circuit will be non-compliant as far as BS7671 goes.
The correct option (other than a new circuit) is to leave the lighting as it is.

If you absolutely must have these downlights and extend that old circuit, then the only viable option is to obtain Class II fixtures which have no provision for any earth connection, and extend the circuit using 2 core 1mm² flex.
It still won't comply with BS7671.

T&E cable cannot be used as there is nowhere to connect the protective conductor. Leaving it unconnected is not acceptable as a voltage may appear on it due to capacitance, and others in the future may assume it's connected to the earth and install fittings which require that.

 

[Simc101]

Thanks Flameport, I’ve found your YT content to be very clear
As a possible alternative, could another JB be added to the FCU output (which is earthed) before the bathroom switch. Obviously I’d need to add a T&E for the bedroom switch but would this be a safer alternative? I’m assuming I can’t do this work myself under regulations.

 

[ebee]

Well if you run a radial new bit from the same fuseway it would make that part of the circuit compliant but only in itself

 

[morqthana]

...the FCU output (which is earthed) ...

Is it though? Have you checked? Can you rely on anyone who did this

View attachment 387146

to have done anything properly?