isolators and 20A protection

[johnsville]

You have an attitude problem.

No No, he has an altitude problem, ie the rest of us are mere underlings.

You've been told by at least eight people that you're cooker/circuit proposal is unacceptable and potentially dangerous.

Not acceptable to BS, but not dangerous electrically - the two at times may conflict. This is a case. The points have been taken on board. I was just generally talking about electrical thing that spun off the thread. Then got a lecture from an abrasive man with big attitude and it appears he has supporters.

BTW, I will not be doing it. I will double check if a small CU acting as an isolator with a 20A mcb can be off the ring. If that is the case then I am home. Most here say the regs do not allow that, if so then I am stuffed.

 

[kai]

Return the oven to the shop.

The oven is clearly unsuitable for your electrical system - return it for a refund accordingly - say it's faulty and that the circuit fuse blows when it's first switched on.

 

[londonboy]

Return the oven to the shop.

The oven is clearly unsuitable for your electrical system - return it for a refund accordingly - say it's faulty and that the circuit fuse blows when it's first switched on.

So your suggesting giving the innocent shop his headache for buying the wrong cooker in the first place?

 

[johnsville]

Return the oven to the shop.

The oven is clearly unsuitable for your electrical system - return it for a refund accordingly - say it's faulty and that the circuit fuse blows when it's first switched on.

The oven is not bought yet. But thanks for the tip.

 

[johnsville]

I just rang a fellow work college who had a new kitchen fitted recently. According to him, a work around is have the ring supply only a CU in the kitchen and take two appliances off that. He emphasized that the ring must only supply the CU, it is then two cables doubled up on a radial. Then spread all the other sockets off the other ring if the loading is within limits. Food for thought.

No one here has stated that a ring can only have 13A taken off it. A radial can have more.

The plot thickens

 

[bernardgreen]

Most here say the regs do not allow that, if so then I am stuffed.

The regs say it, the people here are quoting the regs,

What you propose is contrary to the regs, but it will work but at the limit of the capacity of the system. As you say there is some lee way in the regs but you need to also consider the system in operation and whether the risks of the MCB tripping are worth taking when preparing a meal.

You say you are an engineer, so you will see that running a 20A consumer unit in a garage from a 13A fused spur is NOT the same as running that 20A consumer unit directly from the ring without the 13A fuse between ring and consumer unit.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Not acceptable to BS, but not dangerous electrically - the two at times may conflict. This is a case.

If you know so much about electrical engineering that you know that you can safely put that load on a ring then why are you here?

The points have been taken on board.

Have they?

Then why do you plan to ask somewhere else?

I was just generally talking about electrical thing that spun off the thread. Then got a lecture from an abrasive man with big attitude and it appears he has supporters.

Funny, isn't it, how the attitude to people who come here, ask questions, and then refuse to accept answers which conflict with what they've already decided to do is common to so many.

I will double check if a small CU acting as an isolator with a 20A mcb can be off the ring.

So you've not taken the points on board....

If that is the case then I am home. Most here say the regs do not allow that, if so then I am stuffed.

They are right, and you would be if you bought that oven, but you haven't, so you've still got time to choose one you can power from a ring.

Or you could keep asking on other fora until you find someone who wrongly says you can do it, in which case you'll believe him, won't you.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I just rang a fellow work college who had a new kitchen fitted recently.

Kitchen fitters tend not to be good electricians.

According to him, a work around is have the ring supply only a CU in the kitchen and take two appliances off that.

Then it's not a ring.

He emphasized that the ring must only supply the CU, it is then two cables doubled up on a radial.

As I said - it's not a ring.

Then spread all the other sockets off the other ring if the loading is within limits. Food for thought.

If you've got a circuit you can dedicate to the oven then just have your electrician turn it into a 16A radial for the oven.

No one here has stated that a ring can only have 13A taken off it. A radial can have more.

A ring can supply up to a total of 32A.

A radial can supply more, or might be less - it depends on the cable rating and MCB size.

 

[johnsville]

Most here say the regs do not allow that, if so then I am stuffed.

The regs say it, the people here are quoting the regs,

What you propose is contrary to the regs,

The regs or BS. BS are recommendations and a professional "who knows what they are doing" can ignore them if need be.

but it will work but at the limit of the capacity of the system. As you say there is some lee way in the regs but you need to also consider the system in operation and whether the risks of the MCB tripping are worth taking when preparing a meal.

As only an oven and kettle would ever be on at the same time the case of tripping is little more than nil.

Look at a normal ring with 6 double sockets off it. In practice 12 3kW heaters can be pugged in. This would trip the MCB as the circuit would be greatly overloaded. The use of the ring is taken into account when designing it. Average use is taken into account.

You say you are an engineer, so you will see that running a 20A consumer unit in a garage from a 13A fused spur is NOT the same as running that 20A consumer unit directly from the ring without the 13A fuse between ring and consumer unit.

I do see that. I now know that the max is 13A from a ring, which no one here stated apart from you just now. I had to ring a friend to tell me that.

The garage CU was dumb and poorly designed with the 16A fuse in it. If there was a problem in the garage it should be contained within the garage. It think they were cowboys and put 40A mcbs in the rings because they never knew. This was before Part P.

 

[johnsville]

As I said - it's not a ring.

If you read the post who would have read that I stated it was not a ring. But you have attitude.

The guy stated a work around which you clearly could not suggest.

No one here has stated that a ring can only have 13A taken off it. A radial can have more.

A ring can supply up to a total of 32A.

Not 32A from the socket, it can't (taken off the ring). The point was clearly made.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I just rang a fellow work college who had a new kitchen fitted recently. According to him, a work around is have the ring supply only a CU in the kitchen and take two appliances off that. He emphasized that the ring must only supply the CU, it is then two cables doubled up on a radial. Then spread all the other sockets off the other ring if the loading is within limits. Food for thought.

Agreeing with what everyone else has said - you're wrong.

Your statement is too stupid to consider but, to attempt to figure out your 'thinking', if you cannot run a dedicated radial circuit for the new oven how on earth are you going to supply the present sockets after you have disconnected them all to use the present ring for the oven and how would you connect the two legs of the ring to the oven from wherever they enter the kitchen???

 

[333rocky333]

I just rang a fellow work college who had a new kitchen fitted recently. According to him, a work around is have the ring supply only a CU in the kitchen and take two appliances off that. He emphasized that the ring must only supply the CU, it is then two cables doubled up on a radial.

It would be allowed to parralel feed a CU but the cables would need to be equal length, this is sometimes used in industry and both cables take the exact same route, this is unlikely for two legs of a domestic ring.

One leg of the ring on a 16/20A mcb is more suitable IMO

 

[johnsville]

I just rang a fellow work college who had a new kitchen fitted recently. According to him, a work around is have the ring supply only a CU in the kitchen and take two appliances off that. He emphasized that the ring must only supply the CU, it is then two cables doubled up on a radial. Then spread all the other sockets off the other ring if the loading is within limits. Food for thought.

Agreeing with what everyone else has said - you're wrong.

I was relaying what to the thread what happened in another installation as a work around. I wrote, "food for thought". Many have stated it is OK as it is converted to a radial.

Your statement is too stupid to consider but, to attempt to figure out your 'thinking', if you cannot run a dedicated radial circuit for the new oven how on earth are you going to supply the present sockets after you have disconnected them all to use the present ring for the oven and how would you connect the two legs of the ring to the oven from wherever they enter the kitchen???

What you are saying is that it may be practically impossible. That may be the case in some installations. This afternoon I looked around mine and it is possible to convert one ring to a two cable supply radial and distribute the other sockets onto the other ring. A bit tricky in some parts but by far the best solution so far, unless anyone has a better idea here. There is no way a new cable is being run back to the meter as this is just not an option.

 

[JohnD]

This is obviously a leg-pull. C'mon guys, he's had his fun, leave him alone now. He'll only come back with more silly ideas if you encourage him.

 

[johnsville]

I just rang a fellow work college who had a new kitchen fitted recently. According to him, a work around is have the ring supply only a CU in the kitchen and take two appliances off that. He emphasized that the ring must only supply the CU, it is then two cables doubled up on a radial.

It would be allowed to parralel feed a CU but the cables would need to be equal length, this is sometimes used in industry and both cables take the exact same route, this is unlikely for two legs of a domestic ring.

One leg of the ring on a 16/20A mcb is more suitable IMO

Thanks Rocky. The two cables can be pretty well equal length, I know the route they take.

Your idea of using both cables for two separate circuits is a good one. Thanks. There are spare ways on the CU. One cable can serve the oven and one another appliance. Can an oven be on one 2.5mm cable? The oven consumes just under 16A. I would think a 20A mcb would need to be installed in the CU for it. It is a normal 3 bed semi.