In Scotland is it legal for a joiner to do electrical work? 
Joiner doing electrical work
- Thread starter Puffin1
- Start date
Sponsored Links
Thank you Big- all for your reply. The rules are different in England where you have Part P and I think that is what you are referring to.
I need to know what are rules in Scotland where we don't have Part P. In particular is it legal for a Limited Company to allow joiner to do electrical work such as new wiring for hob and new extra wall sockets?
yes, if you can do it, why can't he?
there's no rule that says you have to be a qualified sparky to do electrics like there is for gas installers..
you lot don't have Part P, but you do have building warrants and your own list of electrical work that requires a warrant.
as long as the company is insured and gives you the required test sheets then I don't see a problem..
perhaps this chippie was a sparky in a previous job and is diversifying in the current economic climate..
there's no rule that says you have to be a qualified sparky to do electrics like there is for gas installers..
you lot don't have Part P, but you do have building warrants and your own list of electrical work that requires a warrant.
as long as the company is insured and gives you the required test sheets then I don't see a problem..
perhaps this chippie was a sparky in a previous job and is diversifying in the current economic climate..
Sponsored Links
Many thanks for your reply. I had searched the internet but couldn't find anything. I asked trading standards who replied after asking SELECT (the trade association for the electrical contracting industry in Scotland) that:
"Please accept this information to assist in your enquiry.
It is not illegal in this country for any person to carry out electrical installation work.
Normally, the requirement for persons carrying out this work is for them to be deemed competent.
If the work however is in conjunction with a building warrant then a more rigid scheme is applicable and the person in charge of the electrical installation would generally need to be a certifier of construction (an approved electrician having passed some building standards training and assessment)"
However, before I got the above reply from Trading Standards I had again searched the internet using the "warrant" word I learned from you and found that I was indeed required to have a warrant because the work done was in a flat.
So now I have to get drawings and certificates.
All of the worry and anguish would have been avoided if the company I contracted with had been honest with me. The proprietor of the company should (probably did) know that the work had to be certified.
"Please accept this information to assist in your enquiry.
It is not illegal in this country for any person to carry out electrical installation work.
Normally, the requirement for persons carrying out this work is for them to be deemed competent.
If the work however is in conjunction with a building warrant then a more rigid scheme is applicable and the person in charge of the electrical installation would generally need to be a certifier of construction (an approved electrician having passed some building standards training and assessment)"
However, before I got the above reply from Trading Standards I had again searched the internet using the "warrant" word I learned from you and found that I was indeed required to have a warrant because the work done was in a flat.
So now I have to get drawings and certificates.
All of the worry and anguish would have been avoided if the company I contracted with had been honest with me. The proprietor of the company should (probably did) know that the work had to be certified.
Puffin, you might have had more info from posters if you asked for this to be moved into the Electrics UK section. I'm sure when I last checked Scotland was still part of the UK.
Am I right in thinking you paid for professional electrical work which was completed by a joiner but that the firm who provided him said that a building warrant was not required?
Either way, whether the joiner was competent or his work was being overseen by someone who was competent, you should have still been provided with an Electrical Installation Certificate with reference to BS7671 in addition to whatever was required under the building warrant scheme.
Am I right in thinking you paid for professional electrical work which was completed by a joiner but that the firm who provided him said that a building warrant was not required?
Either way, whether the joiner was competent or his work was being overseen by someone who was competent, you should have still been provided with an Electrical Installation Certificate with reference to BS7671 in addition to whatever was required under the building warrant scheme.
1
1CANHELP
Puffin1,
follow this link www.scotland.gov.uk/resource/doc/217736/0098173.pdf
This will take you to the list of non notifiable and notifiable works.
Anybody who would use a joiner, kitchen fitter anybody not a TIMESERVED electrcian needs their head examined.
The company you were intially going to hire...tell them to beat it as any REPUTABLE firm would know of the requirements.
You have been warned!
follow this link www.scotland.gov.uk/resource/doc/217736/0098173.pdf
This will take you to the list of non notifiable and notifiable works.
Anybody who would use a joiner, kitchen fitter anybody not a TIMESERVED electrcian needs their head examined.
The company you were intially going to hire...tell them to beat it as any REPUTABLE firm would know of the requirements.
You have been warned!
Puffin, you might have had more info from posters if you asked for this to be moved into the Electrics UK section. I'm sure when I last checked Scotland was still part of the UK.
How did I not notice where I was posting??!!!
That's correct
I know now that I should have been given some sort of certificate.
And what I don't understand is how these "cowboys" get away with it all. Television is full of stories like mine but no "cowboy" is ever brought to court. I dealt with a Limited Company which I took to court only to have the clerk make the announcement at the first hearing that the Company was in liquidation. But I still hope to get decree and that the proprietor will be banned from trading.
Many thanks for your reply too.
I had a snagging list done by a professional property and construction specialist firm. They did not check the socket electrics. I had a SELECT electrician come in to see to hob and oven and he reported that there were faults but not dangerous. He did not ask about new sockets and I didn't know then to tell him. I then had the electrics all fixed by a SELECT electrician who fixed hob and oven and rewired the sockets but didn't offer any certificates but will supply now that I have asked him.
The hob and oven were not dangerous, just inconvenient that I couldn't use hob and oven at same time or have all 4 elements of hob on at same time.
But BS said I have to get an architect to make drawings. I am not sure that BS is correct. Only time I had such drawing was when I completely gutted an apartment overseas and drawings were necessary as everything was being redone, and then only necessary so that electrician knew exactly what he had to do.
Do you think drawings are necessary for putting in 2 new double sockets and 2 isolator switches??
1
1CANHELP
Building surveyors know very little about a lot and not a lot about very much in my experience.
As for drawings well...what was the extent of the work being done? just a new kitkchen! then no you don't need drawings however, it is worrying the SELECT electrician never offered any, especially as he was their to put right a non qualified chaps work. It is also a requirement of his registration.
If you have had for example a extension or major works i.e movement/alteration of a load bearing structure, then a building warrant is required and the BCO will be involved therefore, electrical work should be on the drawing as it is part of the whole job.
I run a small business which, is NICEIC, Gas Safe, OFTEC etc etc we always supply certification even when not required. Maybe thats why we've been around for a while with a good reputation!
As for rouge companys who do shoddy work or claim to be members of trade organisations when not! NOBODY ever does anything about them unless a major incident occurs.
It's only reputable fools like myself that jump through the legal loops however, I can sleep at night knowing I am not going gas or electrocute soome poor sod.
Good Luck and don't let the b4stards away with it.
1CANHELP-
Your first link (to the 'Works Requiring a Building Warrant') states that a warrant is required for such-and-such, now you're saying a warrant isn't required unless it's structural work . . . ?????
To the OP, If Building Control are on to you you will most likely have to do what they say and get a warrant for your work. In reality most people do not get a building warrant for things like adding a socket in a flat even though they should. You are right that it is a ridiculous situation.
If you are applying for a building warrant you will need plans (existing and proposed) which are normally done by an architect or technician.
Also there is NO REQUIREMENT EVER to use SELECT or NICEIC (the other registration scam (scheme) in Scotland) to do electrical work, paid or DIY, for building warrant or not.[/code]
1
1CANHELP
That is correct skenk however, if you use a non scheme registered electrician or diy numptie, then the local council will have to send someone out to inspect it and sign it off at a cost of 100sss of pounds.
Use a professionally registered electrician NICEIC or SELECT and they can sign it off for the client.
Being on a diy site skenk, I suppose you encourage diy work and don't bother with professionals and have porbably just completed a 6 Week course in plumbing and electrics
What's your attitude to DIY work then?
Actually I believe the discount on the normal warrant fee is £10-£15 pounds if you use a registered certifier of construction. There is no additional charge of '100sss' of pounds. Of course an EIC will have to be provided but surely only an idiot would assume that that you had to be registered to be competent to do that?
Assuming the sparky does 25 building warrant jobs a year (unlikely to do this many . . ) they would have to charge about £20 extra per job to pay for their annual registration (at £500) so IMO the only advantage of using a registered spark is that they might be of a higher standard, although there are plenty examples of cowboy sparks who are registered . . .
I believe the schemes are all about making money and developing influence for their owners, electrical safety is a side-issue. Until the schemes are effective, fair, or compulsory (won't be long if SELECT/NICEIC lobby have their way) I won't be joining.
If you care to read my posts you will see what my opinions are on DIY electrical work.
I noticed you ignored me pulling you up about your inconsistencies with regard to your advice on works requiring a building warrant but are quite happy to wage into me with accusations of incompetence. Well I feel I should return the favour so I suppose you completed a full apprenticeship as an electrician, plumber AND gas fitter 30yrs ago but have zero qualifications and think you know it all?
Or maybe not because you porbably would be able to spell a little better if you had been schooled back then.
Assuming the sparky does 25 building warrant jobs a year (unlikely to do this many . . ) they would have to charge about £20 extra per job to pay for their annual registration (at £500) so IMO the only advantage of using a registered spark is that they might be of a higher standard, although there are plenty examples of cowboy sparks who are registered . . .
I believe the schemes are all about making money and developing influence for their owners, electrical safety is a side-issue. Until the schemes are effective, fair, or compulsory (won't be long if SELECT/NICEIC lobby have their way) I won't be joining.
If you care to read my posts you will see what my opinions are on DIY electrical work.
I noticed you ignored me pulling you up about your inconsistencies with regard to your advice on works requiring a building warrant but are quite happy to wage into me with accusations of incompetence. Well I feel I should return the favour so I suppose you completed a full apprenticeship as an electrician, plumber AND gas fitter 30yrs ago but have zero qualifications and think you know it all?
Or maybe not because you porbably would be able to spell a little better if you had been schooled back then.
We're talking council building control people here....
Sorry - cheap shot.
But seriously, what other practicable way is there for a council employee to check that the person who issued the EIC is competent to do so?
Care to identify which of the 500 we should read?
Always risky to have a dig like that....
DIYnot Local
Staff member
If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.
Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.
Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local
Sponsored Links
