Just purchased house trying to work out CH/DHW system

[scoobydo123]

Hi,

Just completed on a house and am trying to work out the CH/DHW. The property was a Repo and has had the gas meter removed and water drained (property empty since december). Have switched mains water back on and tank in the loft has filled fine noticed lack of F&E tank in the loft for the Baxi Bermuda back boiler. Also most of the radiators in house are fed from one end rather than either end (see atached photo) via small bore pipe have located one manifold on gnd floor and possible sighted one on 1st floor. Will be changing the boiler out in the future (lack of funds to build proposed extn where the new boiler will be) so would like to get this one up and running to get through the coming winter. I have attached various photos of what I believe are releavant areas of the system. I can see 4 pipes going towards the back boiler through the chimney breast, flow and return towards cylinder and I also think another 2 pipes going towards manifold on the 1st floor but cant quite see up the box section going towards 1st floor. Also can see a union that may be the filling point that is also in the picture called all pipe work next to breast. Really surprised not to see a F&E tank in the loft so not sure how you go about filling the system. Cylinder does have an vent as does the flow pipe towards the cylinder. Any help very much appreciated.

Small bore F&R to same end

• scoobydo123
• 1 Aug 2010
• 1

2 pipes lagged these are to cylinder

• scoobydo123
• 1 Aug 2010
• 1

all pipes and pump

• scoobydo123
• 1 Aug 2010
• 1

manifold and 4 pipes going to 1st floor

• scoobydo123
• 1 Aug 2010
• 1

Untitled

• scoobydo123
• 1 Aug 2010
• 1

small bore vent to loft

• scoobydo123
• 1 Aug 2010
• 1

top of cylinder with vent to loft

• scoobydo123
• 1 Aug 2010
• 1

 

[Boilerman2]

Looks like a 1970's System fom hell - from the picture of the HW Cylinder showing the Gravity Flow into the cylinder, a 15mm Open Vent pipe can be seen rising upwards, where does this pipe go? it should terminate over the F&E tank. if it terminates over the Cold Water Storage tank it would indicate that a Primatic Cylinder may be fitted, have a look over the cylinder under it's jacket, you may find a label or marking to support this.

I would suggest a complete replacement of this system when funds allow!

 

[Gasguru]

With the summer months I'd start again..new rads/pipework/boiler

Don't even think of running the boiler without a thorough checkup. BBUs are rarely serviced properly amd most were never installed properly.

 

[scoobydo123]

Yep is a nightmare, however got the property for a good price but had to put a lot down up front which has caused the lack of funds. Knew it would need replacing soon and would replace immediately if it was not that where I would like the new boiler to go is not built yet and it is going to take me about a 6 months to recoup from the purchase. Yes the pipe does go to the cold water storage. I guess I need to read up on primatic systems. Got any hints for me (apart from the obvious of scrap it). Will get a gas safe round to go over it but would like to at least get an understanding of what I have and how to fill and flush etc.

cheers for the fast responce

 

[ChrisR]

Is it broke? If not ...!

But I'd repeat, have the BBU serviced, they're dangerous.

You don't fill Primatics, they're supposed to do it and the heating all by themselves. For that water-mixing reason, you don't flush them either.


See if it all works. Only if not, think about doing things to it, until you can afford a major refurb.

 

[scoobydo123]

Had a read up, thanks Chris, cant try it out as have no gas in the property. Previous owners defaulted on payments and the meter was removed by supplier/ transco. Will 100% have it serviced if it does work. Will have a whip round with bleedkey and see if I can get water in rads. Water is flowing from hot taps but havent tried bleeding the rads yet.

Starting to think that perhaps I should build a boiler room on the side of the house to house a new boiler and then do the extension later. Will have to contact LA to see what there viewpoint is on this. The house came with plans for a double on the side single back and loft conversion but obviously this boler house is in addition.

Whilst on the subject (for my future new boiler) the property is EOT and corner plot is it ok to flue towards the side of the property (will this need plume management) ie are you not allowed to vent onto the adjoining pavement

thanks

 

[ChrisR]

are you not allowed to vent onto the adjoining pavement

Yes you can, though it has to be high enough not to be a problem to anyone.
2 metres is the minimum, 2,5 is better.
Technically I believe it's a "trespass", but it's done all the time.
I've just been involved in an extension which needed PP, and they didn't raise any objections.

 

[scoobydo123]

Live or dead check was completed today and was just a formality. Gas meter is being installed on Friday. Have gone round and bled all radiators and all seem fine so hopefully can try and fire it up and see if it is working. Will then get someone in to service. Have made enquiries with architect and he is of the opinion that a revised drwg is in order to create the the outhouse so in discussions about this. If I can build the outhouse then I can bin the idea of getting another 9 months out of this one.

Thanks

 

[DeltaT]

Man!! Are these old Wednesbury twin entry Radiator valves?? Jeez that takes me back to the early 70s.

 

[scoobydo123]

Yes I think they are (sure I see that on the valve control knobs). What is theroy behing the flow and return being at the same end? Also was it not rather unusual to have small bore pipework and manifolds for a system of that era?

 

[kevplumb]

Also was it not rather unusual to have small bore pipework and manifolds for a system of that era?

no

 

[kittedup]

What is theroy behing the flow and return being at the same end?

Quicker and hence cheaper to run both pipes to the one end of the rad. You should find when you take them out there should be a length of either flexible or rigid pipe running up the inside of the rad.

Ted

 

[DeltaT]

That certainly takes me back!!
Twin entry or maxitwin radiator valves.

Back in the day, we'd get £80(price work) for doing 5 radiators(with 8mm maxitwins), a BBU/Fire & primatic cylinder..............We made a fortune!!
Well, when you consider our guys are only getting £400 for 6 Radiators & a combi now!!

Ah yes the good auld days!!

 

[scoobydo123]

Got the system up and running. Blocked pilot injector. Everything seems to work but have decided to heat the house electrically (probably wont be much difference in efficency either) for the 6 or so months before the extension get built. Will be removing the chimney breasts so rather than do one followed by the other I will do both.Thanks for all the advice.