Karndean Training

[sparkypenguin]

I have decided to go on a training course to fit Karndean and I was after people's opinions, good or bad, regarding the Karndean centre in Evesham and also the course content.
Also if anyone knows of any training centre's more local to myself (Sunderland) could they please let me have the names.
And finally a general question, if I become trained to fit Karndean will the skills be directly transferable to the fitting of Amtico and Forbo?

Thanks for any help.

Mark.

 

[mattysupra]

if you can fit karndean you can fit amtico etc also. But you need to go on there courses to become approved fitter.

Karndean course is very good.

 

[sparkypenguin]

Cheers.

How would the Karndean course compare to the FITA luxury vinyl fitting course?
The latter's a 4 day course for less money and is closer to where I live, although I would rather pay more for less time and travel further if it's going to benefit me in the long run.

Thanks for all of the advice, hopefully once I'm trained and have a bit of experience I can contribute a bit of useful advice myself!

Mark.

 

[mattysupra]

ye the FITA trainning center is fine.

 

[sparkypenguin]

I have decided to take the Karndean course.
I may take some of the other course at FITA, i.e. wood / carpet, later in the year.
Thanks for your advice over the past few days you have been very helpful!

 

[sparkypenguin]

Mattysupra,

Just a quick post to say thanks for advising me to go on the Karndean training course.
I thoroughly enjoyed it and thought it was an extremely good course.
I have subsequently fitted my friends room and replaced some of his damaged tiles in another room.
I have also had complements from 2 people that my fitting is better than the stuff that is in their houses.
I have another job lined up for a couple of weeks time.
So once again thanks!

On a related note can you give me any advice reference plying out a room.
On the course it sort of skimmed over this due to time constraints and I think on the assumption that everyone knows how to do it.
I specifically would like to know:-
1) If there are any trade secrets to quickly cutting the ply to the correct size.
2) How important is it to try and keep the ply in big pieces?
3) Is it important that the edges of the ply are overlaid in the same place as the existing floor?

Kind Regards
Mark.

 

[mattysupra]

i use a jig saw and just rub some sandpaper over the cuts to remove any splinters. For bathrooms and tricky cuts i carry a roll (2meter wide) of templating paper or sometimes called paper felt. A flooring supplier will sell you a roll. It comes in 1 meter also if you dont have a van big enough to carry it in. Use this to make templates of the areas your working in to transfer back to the plywood.

You could do with buying a staple gun (spot nails) to pin the plywood down with. I would invest in a compressed air one as they never break down or overheat. They fire divergent staples (18-23mm) to secure the plywood. This will really quicken up the job and save you having to skim coat the whole board, just the joints. Other wise you will need to use 22mm ring shank nails that do need to be skimcoated.

Pin your plywood at 100mm centers and around 50mm around the edge and close to the edge

It dont matter how many bits the plywood in as long as you skimcoat the joints. But always better with less joints as it will remove the chance of them moving and showing through the material.

Always try and get the joints to over lap joints underneath (the subfloor) and finish in the center of floorboards.

Also i would sack the karndean adhesive! Get yourself a large tub of F46 FBALL adhesive. Its pressure sensitive but you glue out with a larger trowel size and then run through it with a paint roller to make the glue flat (no trowel ridges left). It has a open time of about 6 hours or more so you can glue out large area. You lay into it dry also so no mess. It is very easy to remove a damaged plank out of. It wont seem to grab as well as karndeans glue, but you dont need the strength on the upwards lift! Its sideways movement that you need to secure.

Anything else?

p.s, when you get some expearence, look me up and i will come out and assess you for a level 2 nvq if your intrested? I can get you full funding and will be able to give you on site trainning paid for also. (always good as its one on one rather than a group) The nvq will allow you to work on ANY building site.

 

[sparkypenguin]

Cheers for advice and thanks especially for the offer reference the NVQ, I will make a note to get back in touch when I think I have enough experience under my belt. (You will probably know as I will stop asking so many questions!) I can buy you some lunch and a pint (or 2) as a thank you for all of your help!

I was going to get some paper felt so good to know that I am going down the correct route! I was also thinking about using the existing flooring, i.e. the carpet / vinyl wherener possible. Do you think this would work?

I have purchased a basic electric stapler / nailer for now and have bought some divergent staples at the correct length to give a good hold into the existing floor without going out of the bottom and into a pipe!
However When I am securing the existing floor (in this case boards) how do I ensure that I do not go into a pipe / cable or something below?

Is it correct that I leave no expansion gap between boards and how tight up does my ply have to be around obstacles / the walls etc?

Finally when you say over lap joints do you mean fit at 90% to existing flooring and ensure that the edges always fall in the middle of a board?

Also should I also be using some no nails on the back of the ply to help it to adhere to the boards?

It's a little confusing at the moment as I am also laying floor tiles and the ply principles are slightly different. At this time I am not 100% sure why though.

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[mattysupra]

ye center of boards and 90 degrees

Dont glue the plywood to the subfloor. Just pin it at the correct centers.

You need to uplift floorboards to check for pipes etc. Never take the risk of just plying up a bit a peeping through a small gap! You will hit a pipe!

Boards tight to each other about 2-3mm around the edge is all you need. Any more expansion around the edge and the karndean will start to sink into the gap in 6 months time.

Carpet is no good as a template (trust me it wont fit) But you can use the old vinyl, just remember how many people may of missed the toilet tho !

 

[sparkypenguin]

Point noted reference the poor aim!
Can I ask why carpet is no good, it's not that I don't trust what you are saying, I'm just curious! I will understand however if you do not answer as I am sure you have better things to do with your time and I have more questions below....

With regard to securing the existing floor is it necessary on all jobs to lift the existing boards to check for pipes etc or do you really only need to secure the existing floor if it seems to be loose. It just seems like lifting floor boards on every job that requires plying is going to add quite a bit of work to the job. If it always needs doing then I will do it but I don't want to be going over the top just for the sake of it.

Also is it enough just to lift a couple and stick my head down with a torch?

I was also hoping you could give me some advice ref laying Vinyl as I have been asked by a friend of a friend to lay a roll that they have had since November. It's approx. 11sqm of a random slate design. The floor is already prepared with hardboard as they have vinyl partially down at the moment. The room edges comprise of kick boards and skirting and there are a couple of pipes to cut around.
I was planning to use the piece of vinyl that is still laid down as a template to cut amap of the new piece, most of the remaining cuts would then be going under the kickboards. However it still leaves me with a couple of area's where I will need to judge the cut to get it right up to the skirting. Or am I correct in thinking that I should be leaving a small gap and using a silicon sealant around the edges? If the latter then could you explain why so I can explain to them.
I would also appreciate it if you could give me a rough idea of what I should be charging to fit 11sqm of vinyl as I have no idea and I don't think it would be fair to base it on a day rate given that it will probably take me 3 times as long as an experienced fitter. If you cannot or do not think it's right to give out pricing advice then a rough idea of how long it should take will help me to gauge the price.

Any other relevant advice on vinyl would be appreciated.

Mark.

 

[mattysupra]

thanks for the offer of a couple of beers and lunch in a previous post but at this rate i will be looking for a nice holiday ! LOL

(all your questions will help others also so keep them coming)

When using carpet as a template, depending on how new it is and how well it was fitted it will of been stretched. The carpet can change its shape by the time you get it up and try to use it as a template. Also there should be some carpet tucked down the back of the gripper so it will be to big, so you think maybe i will allow for this and it still dont fit as the fitter never tucked the correct amount. Also different pile depths will change the size of your template! Do you go by the pile on the edge or the backing? It will be different depending on who fitted it.

Give it a try tho! its only plywood that can be replaced if it dont fit! I just find it easier to make my own template that i know is accurate and it takes under 5 minutes for the adverage bathroom to make and maybe 30p of paper!

As for lifting floorboards? You only need to do this on loose boards that need screwing down, If your using the correct staples (18-23) plus your 6mm plywood you will not hit a pipe! The only way you can hit a pipe is if the plummer has notched the back of a floor board! You are working to british standards with them staples and thickness of plywood. For one of them staples to hit a pipe means the plummer never worked to British standard and there workman ship is below standard and their problem to solve/sort out.

as for fitting vinyl, well its not something you will be able to do straight off. You only get one cut, its not like karndean where you can replace a tile if cut wrong, i would advice another course before you try and free hand the stuff!

However you can use your template. Even i template some vinyl jobs if there large and complicated (so dont think im saying this because your a novice). BUT you need to know how to template properly for this! When i say complicated i mean running through a few door ways in one when your very tight on width etc. But still, if you was my apprentise who has been watching me fit for the last few months, i would still make him template a 2x2m room (as this is the correct way). Plus if you was fitting LINO in a bathroom the ONLY way to fit it is to template.

So do you know how to template properly? In other words, cut your template paper short by 1" and use rules and a pencil? I can send you a video of someone doing this but will need to get permission first.

Also vinyl needs to be cut about 2mm short as its loose laid not glued. The vinyl will grow and shrink with heat. You cover the gap with silicon.


add me as a friend and i can P.m you the other question.

 

[sparkypenguin]

Once again thanks for all of the advice, especially for the comment "(all your questions will help others also so keep them coming) ". I was concerned that you would be getting fed up with all the questions!

Not sure if I can afford the holiday option but I may be able to push the boat out and include a dessert!

If you can sort out the video for the template it would be much appreciated. I was going to try to cut to the exact size but I think I have an idea of what you mean ref cutting it short and of how this would work.

I have added you as a friend as requested.

Thanks again,
Mark.