N
Newboy
I've always believed that these fanatics have nothing to do with religion it's just a convenient excuse - if you took away religion them they would find some other "cause" to use as an excuse for violence.
Could it happen here was the original question - different people and different cause but it has already happened here quite a few times!
http://www.manchester2002-uk.com/buildings/bombing.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/17/newsid_2538000/2538147.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/low/dates/stories/march/20/newsid_2544000/2544121.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/witness/november/21/newsid_4025000/4025491.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/24/newsid_2523000/2523345.stm
Could it happen here was the original question - different people and different cause but it has already happened here quite a few times!
http://www.manchester2002-uk.com/buildings/bombing.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/17/newsid_2538000/2538147.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/low/dates/stories/march/20/newsid_2544000/2544121.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/witness/november/21/newsid_4025000/4025491.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/24/newsid_2523000/2523345.stm
Oh God, he's off again. Change the record, Joseph.
Oh, I forgot. You only have the one, don't you. (He won't say.)
I'm not so sure. They all run around shouting 'allawakba' with great conviction.
S
Sombrero
Firstly, Joe is just a numpty.. don't get drawn in by his prodding... ignore him.
As for how to take it forward, rather surprisingly, Mr Bliar (sorry Blair) has made a few interesting points today:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...m-proper-place-politics-called-tolerance.html
(the first hit - I have no allegiance to any newspaper)..
But the way he plays it is quite good .... "the toxic side" of a religion gives the mainstream an opportunity to distance themselves from the unforgivable violence meted out in the name of their religion.. which we aren't seeing unfortunately.
The press is far more concerned with the alleged attempted abduction of Tulisa (who the F is she?!) by the leader of the EDL, rather than the screamingly loud lack of condemnation of the Westgate attrocity by ANY muslim leader anywhere !!!
Blair (and as much as I hate to say it) needs support in his stance.... #keepreligionoutofpolitics
As for how to take it forward, rather surprisingly, Mr Bliar (sorry Blair) has made a few interesting points today:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...m-proper-place-politics-called-tolerance.html
(the first hit - I have no allegiance to any newspaper)..
But the way he plays it is quite good .... "the toxic side" of a religion gives the mainstream an opportunity to distance themselves from the unforgivable violence meted out in the name of their religion.. which we aren't seeing unfortunately.
The press is far more concerned with the alleged attempted abduction of Tulisa (who the F is she?!) by the leader of the EDL, rather than the screamingly loud lack of condemnation of the Westgate attrocity by ANY muslim leader anywhere !!!
Blair (and as much as I hate to say it) needs support in his stance.... #keepreligionoutofpolitics
S
Sombrero
We're agreed on one thing.... "fanatics"...
And if you take away anything you reduce it to a common factor which is wrong... you need to add detail... to pinpoint!
Those things you posted were 'driven' some by religion, not sure of the others.
Whereas Westgate, when the news says "islamists", there's a huge clue... and when the terrorist murderers let muslims free and kill all others.. I'm putting my house on them being motivated by religion !!!!
N
Newboy
I suspect that if you read any religious text - Koran, Quran, Bible, Torah etc
you can find a way of justifying any action you feel like.
You can ague that all the links in my last post were driven by religion - they were all the work of the provisional IRA - perhaps if the news had reported them as "today Catholics bombed Manchester/London/Birmingham"
Fanatical Muslims are no different from fanatical Christians - the Ku Klux Klan for example.
I'm sure that in their own warped minds (all fanatics) are convinced they are righteous and will be rewarded in whatever afterlife they believe in however if you took away religion the fanatics would simply find another excuse - politics/race/gender/language/football team/nationality etc.
A fanatic is simply a holder of extreme or irrational or beliefs
you can find a way of justifying any action you feel like.
You can ague that all the links in my last post were driven by religion - they were all the work of the provisional IRA - perhaps if the news had reported them as "today Catholics bombed Manchester/London/Birmingham"
Fanatical Muslims are no different from fanatical Christians - the Ku Klux Klan for example.
I'm sure that in their own warped minds (all fanatics) are convinced they are righteous and will be rewarded in whatever afterlife they believe in however if you took away religion the fanatics would simply find another excuse - politics/race/gender/language/football team/nationality etc.
A fanatic is simply a holder of extreme or irrational or beliefs
S
Sombrero
Hello (notso) Newboy... you are right, fanatacism is rife... but where I disagree with your post is when you say that a fanatical Islamist is equal to a fanatical christian... that is so wrong !
Christians may have wreaked havoc in the past but these days they are submissive, whereas islam is now rampant... killing everything in its path... and I'm an atheist and I'm not even slapping anyone.... yet !!
Christians may have wreaked havoc in the past but these days they are submissive, whereas islam is now rampant... killing everything in its path... and I'm an atheist and I'm not even slapping anyone.... yet !!
N
Newboy
Killing everything in it's path - a bit of a radical/fanatical statement!
A fanatic is simply a holder of extreme or irrational beliefs
A fanatic is simply a holder of extreme or irrational beliefs
S
Sombrero
Yep, I see what you suggest, yet every single day in our lives, there is a christian church blown up or an attack targetting non muslims... EVERY SINGLE DAY!!!!
As an atheist, my book doesn't tell me to even kick anyone... let alone separate their heads from their bodies..
... or blow them up or get AK47's and wreak havoc...
And I agree, most mulsims are law abiding, peace loving, but why don't they condemn Islamist violence as much as they would a cartoon ridiculing mohammed?
N
Newboy
Perhaps they do - maybe you need to listen to a few more news sources!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-24264201
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-24264201
S
Sombrero
S
Sombrero
Newboy, you can post 20 links that say the attacks are wrong, but there are millions (is that too much?) of posts of imams spouting anti west bile...
And Jihad? the word itself isn't in my dictionary... as an atheist, I don't have a jihad mission..
Get real new boy... you are either a muslim with a concience, or a left wing/right wing (I don't care) supporter who's blind to the facts because of your pollitical allegiance!
And Jihad? the word itself isn't in my dictionary... as an atheist, I don't have a jihad mission..
Get real new boy... you are either a muslim with a concience, or a left wing/right wing (I don't care) supporter who's blind to the facts because of your pollitical allegiance!
N
Newboy
Well done you managed to hold it together for a few posts before heading off into a rant!
If you want a dictionary equivalent of jihad (Islamic campaign against nonbelievers: a campaign waged by Muslims in defense of the Islamic faith against people, organizations, or countries regarded as hostile to Islam)
try crusade (religiously motivated effort: a war or campaign that is religiously motivated, e.g. one with papal sanction)
For the record I'm not a muslim with a conscience and I am non-political just a normal human being who gets tired of fanatics of all persuasions
If you want a dictionary equivalent of jihad (Islamic campaign against nonbelievers: a campaign waged by Muslims in defense of the Islamic faith against people, organizations, or countries regarded as hostile to Islam)
try crusade (religiously motivated effort: a war or campaign that is religiously motivated, e.g. one with papal sanction)
For the record I'm not a muslim with a conscience and I am non-political just a normal human being who gets tired of fanatics of all persuasions
