Kitchen advice

[balancedfires]

Hi, hoping someone can give me some advice.

I am having a new kitchen fitted. We havea free standing washing machine and dishwasher. Initial plans had these visible under worktops but we asked if we could have cupboard doors in front. As long as it worked. The initial plan from the kitchen company had a note like "customer has freestanding appliances and wants doors. This will not work.". He said it would and got a revised plan which says worktop has to be 650mm deep, which it isn't.

Fitter has admitted not measuring machines as he thought they were a standard size. Plans have been drawn up on whatever size a standard appliance is. There is infact an extra 25mm or so of depth needed.

The worktop ordered for this bit of the kitchen is 615mm instead of the 600 in other parts of the kitchen but I am still not sure there's enough depth.

He has now cut holes in the plasterboard behind the machines to get the extra depth needed so they sit under the worktop. There's just enough room behind to get a finger in but its a very tight fit. This seems like a backwards way to do things. Surely you'd adjust the kitchen cabinets, not cut into the wall? Is this normal and is it allowed? He reckons its OK because the wall was a bit damp.

The other thing is there are gaps between cupboard doors where the appliances go and it looks awful. It goes corner post > appliance > 20mm gap > sink > 40mm gap > appliance > corner post.

I've asked that an equal gap and appropriate filler piece goes on each end as it'll look better.

I do understand not all walls are straight and not all kitchen units are going to fit perfectly but it seems like he has messed up and is trying to bodge it or is working from incorrect plans. He also ordered the worktop before we had even said yes to a kitchen (denies this outright) which I think is part of the problem. It isn't deep enough and he's trying to work around it instead of buying a new worktop.

Any input would be Great. A few pics attached which may help.

 

[balancedfires]

Here is the plan and comments too

 

[Nozzle]

"The worktop ordered for this bit of the kitchen is 615mm"

There's no such thing as an off the shelf worktop this depth - unless you're willing to pay for a 900 and cut it back. Your problems come from insisting having doors over stand-alone units. As a built-in unit is intentioally not as deep so there is space left over for doors and hinges. Do get a (removable) kick board fitted!

Do you have a brochure picture of what the doors are supposed to look like when fitted in a standard space? It could be the "design", it's just the design couldn't be replicated on the spaces where you have standalone units. Precisely because they are spaces, not carcasses.

Nozzle

 

[johnny2007]

It says "customer own worktop".
Have you bought your own worktops?
In theory the whole kitchen could've been designed with the hidden appliances in mind, but before any plans were drawn.
BTW, is that odd £6k the price?

 

[balancedfires]

"The worktop ordered for this bit of the kitchen is 615mm"

There's no such thing as an off the shelf worktop this depth - unless you're willing to pay for a 900 and cut it back. Your problems come from insisting having doors over stand-alone units. As a built-in unit is intentioally not as deep so there is space left over for doors and hinges. Do get a (removable) kick board fitted!

Nozzle

We didn't insist, but did insist that if we had doors, everything fit correctly! Otherwise we may have considered either investing in integrated units or having no doors over them. Can only go on what we're told and we were told it'd work. It just seems wrong to be cutting into walls. The plan should have allowed the space. Or we should have been told it wouldn't fit.

I belive the plinths will be attached to the doors over the appliances.

 

[balancedfires]

It says "customer own worktop".
Have you bought your own worktops?
In theory the whole kitchen could've been designed with the hidden appliances in mind, but before any plans were drawn.
BTW, is that odd £6k the price?

No the builder/fitter purchased them. I've not even seen them

Yes its about 6k. Came to a bit more with a different sink, tap, hob, etc

Good price or no?

 

[dontbelieveawordofit]

surprised you found someone who would even discuss it.
sounds like a bodge.

 

[foxhole]

Worktop is available at 615mm (have seen worktop at 600,615,620,650 widths).
Standard doors do not span standard free standing appliances did you request made to measure doors to accommodate this?
The corner detail is terrible, complete bodge.
While it’s acceptable to cut back the wall rather than units it looks a bit of a mess on the photos.
All the problems you have should have been sorted at planning stage .

 

[johnny2007]

I have fitted freestanding appliances with standard doors, but using a detachable filler on one side which you can pull out to remove/insert the wm/dw.
Basically you go from end panel, strip of mdf/veeneered chipboard to match cabinets and then door.
Then on the opening side a detachable strip (inch wide) which could be a piece of cornice where the door will close against.
This strip will be will be followed by another end panel.
In other words, you gain the extra inch you need for the appliance by using a fillet that can be easily removed (push locks for example) or even screw them in with 2 screws hidden on the inside.
Worktops must be over the standard 600mm.

 

[balancedfires]

surprised you found someone who would even discuss it.
sounds like a bodge.

We did insist that if it was going to be an issue we'd either go for integrated or just leave the appliances on show. Wish we had done that now! Even the note on the plan said about it but the guy said there would be absolutely no problems.

Worktop is available at 615mm (have seen worktop at 600,615,620,650 widths).
Standard doors do not span standard free standing appliances did you request made to measure doors to accommodate this?
The corner detail is terrible, complete bodge.
While it’s acceptable to cut back the wall rather than units it looks a bit of a mess on the photos.
All the problems you have should have been sorted at planning stage .

To overcome the issue of the doors not fitting it looks like two have been joined together. While we knew about this, we didn't think it'd leave massive gaps between the doors. The showroom kitchens had no gaps at all, the doors could easily be next to each other and then the gap moved to either side. That's less of an issue than having a washing machine + dishwasher stuck partway into the wall though.

There is a bit of plasterboard behind the machine but I can feel all the cold air coming in from the cavity. Apparently the gaps can be filled but it still seems ... wrong? If the machine had been measured correctly then none of this would have happened at all.

I've asked him to stop working while I figure out next steps but I'm a bit lost really as I can't find anything official about cutting holes in walls for appliances. This might be because it's not supposed to be done but equally it could just be common knowledge that this is a solution to the problem.

Where do I stand at this point? Note that I have not paid for any of the kitchen work yet but the guy has done a fair bit of other work for us. The other work was to a good standard and we're happy to pay for it. Some money has already changed hands but he would be the one losing out at this point. I would rather come to an agreement about how to go forward and get him to continue the work, than fall out and have to have a dispute about money.

Should he absorb the cost of rectifying it with the correct measurements? May mean a new piece of worktop (wider, and to accomodate the sink if it needs moving) and different cupboards but I don't see why I should have to pay more because the measurements were taken incorrectly.

I have fitted freestanding appliances with standard doors, but using a detachable filler on one side which you can pull out to remove/insert the wm/dw.
Basically you go from end panel, strip of mdf/veeneered chipboard to match cabinets and then door.
Then on the opening side a detachable strip (inch wide) which could be a piece of cornice where the door will close against.
This strip will be will be followed by another end panel.
In other words, you gain the extra inch you need for the appliance by using a fillet that can be easily removed (push locks for example) or even screw them in with 2 screws hidden on the inside.
Worktops must be over the standard 600mm.

That sounds like a pain to do but could work. Although I'm not sure how you find more depth - the kitchen doors won't close if the machine moves forwards, as the door is too large. If you mount the doors further back then they hit the other side or don't line up to the other cupboards.

 

[johnny2007]

The worktop must be wide enough to allow the machine to be pushed past the door line, so doors can be closed.
There's a planning issue here.

 

[balancedfires]

The worktop must be wide enough to allow the machine to be pushed past the door line, so doors can be closed.
There's a planning issue here.

Yep, he didn't measure the machine.

 

[johnny2007]

Tough luck for him.
He's got to buy new worktops and amend plans accordingly.
Otherwise kick him out and employ a competent carpenter.