Kitchen extraction in same room as existing open fire

[CALLUM GRIFFITHS]

We're in the process of putting a new kitchen in our existing living room. However, I've only just realised that by having a ducted hob extractor in the same room as an open flued appliance, this will not be in alignment with building regulations.

We're not opposed to not using the fire any longer but would we actually have to remove it to be compliant? My local building regulations department haven't been particularly helpful in giving me a clear answer on this. We essentially want to keep it as decorative as it's one of the original features of the house (it's a Victorian terrace).

 

[CBW]

Without delving into my books (been a long time since I’ve had to answer questions on ventilation and open flued appliances) then afaik, if the extractor doesn’t affect the safe operation of the open flued appliance, then no change needed. If it does, and you’re not op to using the fire, the pan it would only need capping off and can stay as a decorative feature. What is the Kw rating of the fire?

 

[CALLUM GRIFFITHS]

Sorry I probably forgot a key detail - it's a solid fuel fire so I have no idea on the Kw rating if that even applies for solid fuel? Not sure if that adds to the complexity of making it non functional?

We will get it tested in the first instance to see if the hob extraction is causing an issue with airflow, but we can't do that until the hob is installed at which point I don't want to find out we can't make suitable changes without just taking the fire out.

 

[CBW]

Ahh, yes, very valid piece of information. I naturally (and wrongly) assumed it was a gas fire . You probably need to speak with a solid fuel engineer then. I don’t know if there are any on this forum.

 

[martygturner]

You can fit an air brick to the outside air as close to the chimney as possible...its about ventilation if its a closed room.
You can also fit an enclosed fire with ducted ventilation...ie the fire receives its ventilation from the outside air directly.

 

[CALLUM GRIFFITHS]

Interestingly on that point we did consider covering it to gas, so had we have done that capping off would show a clear inability to use it for local building regs. This is why I'm unsure how far we need to go with making it non-functional should we need to.

 

[CALLUM GRIFFITHS]

You can fit an air brick to the outside air as close to the chimney as possible...its about ventilation if its a closed room.

My concern with this is how close we can get it to the fire, as it's on the adjoining wall to next door. On top of that I imagine it would make the room much colder with just an open channel to outside? It's already a fairly cold room.

 

[martygturner]

You can duct it..or fit a slider cover when the fire is not used...bit sneaky that but...
As for building control just ask them, have seen involves a piece of board ductuaped over the flu or the flue damper sealed up with mastic..

There is a test for it, a spill test that basically runs the extrator at max and sees if the is a drag on a light smoke producing spill from the fire to the flue.

It may be that you kitchen extractor does not have the capacity to interfere with the pull of the flue.. most I have seen its the opposite way round, gas hobs flickering when the fires lit.

Having said that why is you open fire not ventilated now ? are you sure there is not an air brick already...lots were covered up by the pig ignorant.

Or to put it another way sealing a house up to keep it warm has exactly the opposite effect, as you make a fridge, all that moisture you produce by being alive, cooking , showering ect contains a lot of energy as it takes a huge amount of energy to turn water into water vapour., as it hits a cold wall it condenses and gives up its energy to the coldest spot, the outside.

Energy travels from hottest to coldest to try to maintain equilibrium.

 

[CALLUM GRIFFITHS]

You can duct it..or fit a slider cover when the fire is not used...bit sneaky that but...
As for building control just ask them, have seen involves a piece of board ductuaped over the flu or the flue damper sealed up with mastic..

There is a test for it, a spill test that basically runs the extrator at max and sees if the is a drag on a light smoke producing spill from the fire to the flue.

It may be that you kitchen extractor does not have the capacity to interfere with the pull of the flue.. most I have seen its the opposite way round, gas hobs flickering when the fires lit.

Having said that why is you open fire not ventilated now ? are you sure there is not an air brick already...lots were covered up by the pig ignorant.

Or to put it another way sealing a house up to keep it warm has exactly the opposite effect, as you make a fridge, all that moisture you produce by being alive, cooking , showering ect contains a lot of energy as it takes a huge amount of energy to turn water into water vapour., as it hits a cold wall it condenses and gives up its energy to the coldest spot, the outside.

Energy travels from hottest to coldest to try to maintain equilibrium.

I don't know if the house was just draughty enough to manage the open fire? I'm not entirely sure to be honest. It's a suspended timber floor with airbricks in the bay window underneath, and presumably enough of a draft for the fire to function without issue. I can't see any obvious airbrick by the fire though. Picture is attached for context.

I do plan on testing it with the hob running when is in but just worry it will fail and then we'll have to end up ripping it out.

 

[martygturner]

As long as the airbrick is in the same room by that i mean it's not in an enclosed space its providing ventilation. All you need to do is test that the ventilation it's providing is not overwhelmed by the extractor....

 

[CALLUM GRIFFITHS]

No airbricks that aren't under the floor currently then oddly enough. I imagine I can install a vent through the floor that draws air from the ventilated subfloor underneath?

 

[martygturner]

or you could just install one straight into the room..

 

[CALLUM GRIFFITHS]

That is an option, although I assume the closer to the fire the better for draught purposes? I might be splitting hairs though as it's draughty anyway.

 

[lostinthelight]

Regulations: Open Fire Ventilation in England & Wales – Rytons Building Products