We have an ongoing issue with the fuse box tripping when we use certain appliances in the kitchen. We have a fuse box with Wylex MCB's (I think this is the technical term looking at various topics here) of various colours. The problem seems to be that all the sockets in the kitchen are going into one MCB which has a yellow button and a rating of 20A. Hence, when the washing machine and tumble drier are on and we go to use the kettle the fuse trips. Admittedly the kettle is a 3kw quick boil version. My husband says we would need to rewire the kitchen to sort the problem out which means taking the kitchen out to do this. As he is not prepared to replace the kitchen just yet to re-wire I am stuck with this frustrating situation. My question is, can we just replace the MCB with a red button one of 30A? Any advice would be gratefully received as we are slowly heading to the divorce court over this!
Kitchen Nightmare
- Thread starter ellise
- Start date
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There are two answers to your question.
One is NO
The other is maybe.
The fuse (MCB) is sized to protect the wiring. The wires can carry a certain current (amount) of electricity. If the cables (i.e. the three wires- live, neutral and earth/CPC) are large enough to carry the larger current (30A) then you can change the size of the MCB to 30A (if not see answer one above). You would need to look at the size of the wires at all points in the circuit. A slightly complicating factor is the size of the main fuse which protects the whole house. This is not for you to touch, but if it is old and small, you could end up overloading this fuse.
Given the cost of divorce lawyers versus electricians, it's probably a good idea to ask an electrician to look at it for you. S/he'll be able to make all the measurements and check for hidden faults on the circuit.
HTH
V
One is NO
The other is maybe.
The fuse (MCB) is sized to protect the wiring. The wires can carry a certain current (amount) of electricity. If the cables (i.e. the three wires- live, neutral and earth/CPC) are large enough to carry the larger current (30A) then you can change the size of the MCB to 30A (if not see answer one above). You would need to look at the size of the wires at all points in the circuit. A slightly complicating factor is the size of the main fuse which protects the whole house. This is not for you to touch, but if it is old and small, you could end up overloading this fuse.
Given the cost of divorce lawyers versus electricians, it's probably a good idea to ask an electrician to look at it for you. S/he'll be able to make all the measurements and check for hidden faults on the circuit.
HTH
V
No, you cannot simply replace the MCB with a 30A one.
It sounds as if your kitchen has been wired as a radial, rather than a ring, using 2.5mm cable, which is rated 27A max at best.
This is just a guess, of course. To go some way towards verifying this, we would need to see a photo of your consumer unit with the cover off - if you do not feel confident to do this please do not try.
If it is a radial, it may be possible to convert it to a ring by adding a cable from the last socket on the run back to the CU. Then you should be able to uprate the MCB.
But this really needs someone to look at it before this is done, as there may be multiple branches etc which would compicate matters.
It sounds as if your kitchen has been wired as a radial, rather than a ring, using 2.5mm cable, which is rated 27A max at best.
This is just a guess, of course. To go some way towards verifying this, we would need to see a photo of your consumer unit with the cover off - if you do not feel confident to do this please do not try.
If it is a radial, it may be possible to convert it to a ring by adding a cable from the last socket on the run back to the CU. Then you should be able to uprate the MCB.
But this really needs someone to look at it before this is done, as there may be multiple branches etc which would compicate matters.
ellise - do you know if the kitchen socket circuit is a ring or a radial?
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Not sure if we have a ring or radial as we inherited the wiring when we bought the house 10 years ago. Yes, I have suffered this problem for all that time. As I'm not able to remove the cover myself (self preservation prevents this) I can't send a picture of it. Can the transfer from one to the other be done without pulling kitchen units out? It looks like I need to try and find a good sparky to come and have a look first. At least that should be cheaper than the divorce lawyer.......
Thanks for all the speedy replies, all is not lost!
Thanks for all the speedy replies, all is not lost!
On a radial circuit (which you have probably got) the cable runs from the consumer unit to the first socket, on to the next, then the next, and stops at the last one. A Yellow 20A kitchen circuit is a common Radial. On a Ring circuit, it runs much like the same, but connects from the last socket back to the consumer unit (hence, a Ring). Rings can take more power, and the only new cable needed to make the conversion is from the last socket back to the CU. How simple this is depends on where they are. Rings have to be carefully tested, as certain faults can go unnoticed by the user.
try to get a personal recommendation of a local electrician from a friend or neighbour. You do not need a builder or a kitchen fitter.
When phoning one, asK if he is a member of a Self-Certification scheme; which one; and what trading name he is registered under (if he is suitably qualified he will not mind you asking) and write down his reply.
this is because electrical work in kitchens is notifiable under building regulations (and also because unqualified electricians may not be very good). If he is a member of a scheme he is authorised to do the tests and documentation for you
try to get a personal recommendation of a local electrician from a friend or neighbour. You do not need a builder or a kitchen fitter.
When phoning one, asK if he is a member of a Self-Certification scheme; which one; and what trading name he is registered under (if he is suitably qualified he will not mind you asking) and write down his reply.
this is because electrical work in kitchens is notifiable under building regulations (and also because unqualified electricians may not be very good). If he is a member of a scheme he is authorised to do the tests and documentation for you
Yes, getting someone in to take a look is the best option, as its a bit hard to give options when you cannot see the job!
Possible to see a picture of the outside of the board then?, so we know what were are dealing with, it sounds like it might be an old wylex standard board with retro-fit MCBs
Basically the options boil down to a two, upgrading the existing kitchen circuit, basically asusming its a 2.5mm radial, it means finding the end and running another cable back to the fuseboard, as long as this wouldn't mean that sockets are clustered towards one end of the ring thats formed (particulaly if such sockets serve heavy loads such as w/m or t/d)
Or installing a second circuit, and shifting some of the load off the first onto it, for example a second circuit could be installed for the w/m and t/d, but you'd need a spare fuseway to do this, which might mean a new fuseboard (and if you dont have any rcd protection atm then that could be a sensible thing to go for!)
Possible to see a picture of the outside of the board then?, so we know what were are dealing with, it sounds like it might be an old wylex standard board with retro-fit MCBs
Basically the options boil down to a two, upgrading the existing kitchen circuit, basically asusming its a 2.5mm radial, it means finding the end and running another cable back to the fuseboard, as long as this wouldn't mean that sockets are clustered towards one end of the ring thats formed (particulaly if such sockets serve heavy loads such as w/m or t/d)
Or installing a second circuit, and shifting some of the load off the first onto it, for example a second circuit could be installed for the w/m and t/d, but you'd need a spare fuseway to do this, which might mean a new fuseboard (and if you dont have any rcd protection atm then that could be a sensible thing to go for!)
I see VIR tails too! These are the cables between the main electricity cut-out and your meter, cant see the ones between the meter and your consumer unit but looking at the picture i would suggest you have the installation looked at by an electrician. Its not screaming dangerous at me but do get it checked over for peace of mind.
Ask friends and family if they can recommend a good local electrician who is registered and able to self certify, or pick up the yellow pages and pick a few out, again registered and able to self certify.
An electrician will almost definitely recommend some remedial work needs to be carried out, adding RCD protection to the socket circuits being one of them (im assuming one isn't fitted). How much work is required is impossible to say without being there in person to see.
All the best
Dan
Ask friends and family if they can recommend a good local electrician who is registered and able to self certify, or pick up the yellow pages and pick a few out, again registered and able to self certify.
An electrician will almost definitely recommend some remedial work needs to be carried out, adding RCD protection to the socket circuits being one of them (im assuming one isn't fitted). How much work is required is impossible to say without being there in person to see.
All the best
Dan
Photo's are great and tell us much more. Whilst it doesnt appear dangerous its obviously been worked on a few times with replacement MCB's of two different types and ages. Its certainly not up to current standards - with old and undersized meter tails, probably no or inadeqaute earthing/bonding and no RCD protection. One wonders about the adequacy of the circuits given the problems you are having.
Get a decent sparks in - listen to their advice and come back here if you want more impartial advice on what they recommend. Don't be surprised to hear the words "rewire" or " new consumer unit". It's what any reputable sparks would be recommending.
Get a decent sparks in - listen to their advice and come back here if you want more impartial advice on what they recommend. Don't be surprised to hear the words "rewire" or " new consumer unit". It's what any reputable sparks would be recommending.
Thanks everyone for your advice. I'll ask around for a recommended electrician and see what happens. Good to know that I can at least check the advice given before signing up to an expensive job that may be unnecessary.
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