kitchen rewiring

[AndreJay]

Hi all!

Just started refurbishment of my kitchen. Having stripped it back to the bricks, I'm on what is called the "1st fix" I guess.



Currently there are 2 double switched sockets on the wall, part of ring I suppose, will check that. I would want to make old ones redundant and install the following:
- single switched socket for extractor fan (on the wall)
- 2 double switched sockets on the right (above the worktop)
- 1 single switched socket on the left (above the worktop)
- 1 single socket for washing machine 2050W (under the worktop)
- 1 single socket for gas hob 0.6W (under the worktop)
left)
- 1 single socket for oven 2400W, oven came with regular plug (behind the tall unit, on the left)
- 1 single socket for built in microwave 900W (just above the oven)
- I assume I will need DP switched fuse for oven at least (above the worktop), so I drew box next to single switched socket.

Do I need to install above-worktop fuse/switch for under-worktop sockets (gas hob and washing machine) (the pink square in the picture)?

Is it ok to extend the existing ring (replace old sockets with junction boxes and leave them behind wall units) for all of the above mentioned?
(If not, how should I split the load? What MCB should be installed in CU for new connection?).

I have got 25m roll of 2.5mm twin& earth, pack of plastic protective chanelling and most of the sockets. What else do I need to get?

Your advice will be highly appreciated.

Many thanks in advance,
Andrew

 

[MrTinker]

What else do I need to get?

In all honesty, a decent spark to do the install for you

 

[UKMICKY]

This work must be carried out by a qualified electrician who is part P registered.

 

[AndreJay]

What else do I need to get?

In all honesty, a decent spark to do the install for you

I'm not doubting that, unfortunately can't afford one this time. Have done fair bit of DIY in my life.
Was hoping for answers to accomplish the job right way on my own, also will call in qualified sparks to test before plastering the wall.

Thanks,
Andrew

 

[londonboy]

........ also will call in qualified sparks to test before plastering the wall.

Thanks,
Andrew

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that, if he tests it and finds its all wrong you will have to rip it out, and buy another drum of cable, spend more time fixing it, and you'd have to pay the electrician to retest.

Get the electrician involved from day one, and ask him what you can do to help (chasing etc).

 

[ricicle]

This work must be carried out by a qualified electrician who is part P registered.

Not strictly true - a competant DIYer could carry it out after notification, with the appropriate equipment.

 

[dingbat]

This work must be carried out by a qualified electrician who is part P registered.

Not strictly true - a competant DIYer could carry it out after notification, with the appropriate equipment.

I'm not convinced the OP is a good example of one, though.

 

[ricicle]

This work must be carried out by a qualified electrician who is part P registered.

Not strictly true - a competant DIYer could carry it out after notification, with the appropriate equipment.

I'm not convinced the OP is a good example of one, though.

Granted

 

[OwainDIYer]

I have got 25m roll of 2.5mm twin& earth, pack of plastic protective chanelling and most of the sockets. What else do I need to get?

back boxes
screws and plugs for fixing back boxes
grommets
green/yellow sleeving
copy of Regs and On-Site Guide
multifunction test meter with calibration certificate
kettle, lots of teabags and hobnobs/custard creams

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Currently there are 2 double switched sockets on the wall, part of ring I suppose, will check that. I would want to make old ones redundant

And do what with the cables?

single switched socket for extractor fan (on the wall)

You're going to plug an extractor fan in?

2 double switched sockets on the right (above the worktop)

Will they be OK in terms of distance from the sink?

1 single switched socket on the left (above the worktop)

Ditto re the hob?

1 single socket for washing machine 2050W (under the worktop)
1 single socket for gas hob 0.6W (under the worktop)
left)
- 1 single socket for oven 2400W, oven came with regular plug (behind the tall unit, on the left)
- 1 single socket for built in microwave 900W (just above the oven)

Will all those sockets comply with the regulations for accessibility?

- I assume I will need DP switched fuse for oven at least (above the worktop),

Why do you need a fused switch when the plug has a fuse?

Do I need to install above-worktop fuse/switch for under-worktop sockets (gas hob and washing machine) (the pink square in the picture)?

Why do you need fused switches when the plugs have fuses?

Is it ok to extend the existing ring (replace old sockets with junction boxes and leave them behind wall units) for all of the above mentioned?

No. //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:walls

(If not, how should I split the load?

Why do you think you might have to split the load?

What MCB should be installed in CU for new connection?).

//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:mcbtocable - but see this for a discussion of whether that could be usefully simplified.

What else do I need to get?

Building Regulations Approval, before you start.

What do you plan to say on your application about the way you'll comply with P1?

You should probably think about how long you could live with the kitchen in its current state, because you've got a fair bit of learning to do. The job you're planning is not a trivial one, and I'm afraid it involves knowing more than you think it does.

Asking questions here can be a useful part of a learning process, but they are not a substitute for proper structured studying. The key term there is "learning process" - you cannot learn all the things you need to know just by asking questions here. It isn't structured enough - it won't provide you with a way to progress where each step builds on what you learned before.

You can't carry out a job of this magnitude by asking whatever random questions happen to occur to you. You've already shown that you have some dodgy misconceptions - what if you get something wrong because you have no idea your knowledge is wrong? What if you miss something because you simply have no idea it even exists, and just don't realise you don't know it?

• //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics
  
  
• //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:books
  
  
• http://web.archive.org/web/20080213151445/http://www.kevinboone.com/electricity.html
  
  
• http://web.archive.org/web/20080213151445/http://www.kevinboone.com/domesticinstallations.html
  
  
• http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/1.1.htm[/list]I suggest you get stuck into the last link right away - it won't give you design ideas, and unfortunately it doesn't refer to the current edition of the Wiring Regulations, but it's free, and will still give you a good grounding which you can augment with more up to date publications.

 

[UKMICKY]

This work must be carried out by a qualified electrician who is part P registered.

Not strictly true - a competant DIYer could carry it out after notification, with the appropriate equipment.

I'm not convinced the OP is a good example of one, though.

My thoughts exactly .

 

[AndreJay]

Currently there are 2 double switched sockets on the wall, part of ring I suppose, will check that. I would want to make old ones redundant

And do what with the cables?

> gently removed cables from plaster to the level above potential wall units, installed back box of FCU for extractor fan on the left side and back box of accessible junction box for circuit extension on right side.

single switched socket for extractor fan (on the wall)

You're going to plug an extractor fan in?


> unboxed extractor fan, no plug, installed back box for 1G 20A Flush Cord Outlet.

2 double switched sockets on the right (above the worktop)

Will they be OK in terms of distance from the sink?

> more then 300mm from gas hob and sink.

1 single switched socket on the left (above the worktop)

Ditto re the hob?

1 single socket for washing machine 2050W (under the worktop)
1 single socket for gas hob 0.6W (under the worktop)
left)
- 1 single socket for oven 2400W, oven came with regular plug (behind the tall unit, on the left)
- 1 single socket for built in microwave 900W (just above the oven)

Will all those sockets comply with the regulations for accessibility?

> installed new ring circuit cabling for oven (2400W) + microwave (2750W) and w/m (2050W) and back boxes of above-worktop isolating switches for appliances with unaccessible plugs.

- I assume I will need DP switched fuse for oven at least (above the worktop),

Why do you need a fused switch when the plug has a fuse?

> I'm not sure of this.

Do I need to install above-worktop fuse/switch for under-worktop sockets (gas hob and washing machine) (the pink square in the picture)?

Why do you need fused switches when the plugs have fuses?

> the idea was to have isolating switch.

What MCB should be installed in CU for new connection?).

//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:mcbtocable - but see this for a discussion of whether that could be usefully simplified.

> planning to install 30A fuse for new circuit.


You should probably think about how long you could live with the kitchen in its current state, because you've got a fair bit of learning to do. The job you're planning is not a trivial one, and I'm afraid it involves knowing more than you think it does.

> Agree. ban-all-sheds, I sincerely thank you for your reply, leading questions and useful links. View media item 30995 View media item 30994 View media item 30996

 

[AndreJay]

Is it safe to install spur for gas hob (0.6W) from w/m socket? View media item 30994

 

[ban-all-sheds]

accessible junction box for circuit extension on right side.

Replacing the cables or crimping would be better.

installed new ring circuit cabling for oven (2400W) + microwave (2750W) and w/m (2050W) and back boxes of above-worktop isolating switches for appliances with unaccessible plugs.

Sockets contain screwed joints - they must not be inaccessible.

The FCUs for those appliances totalling 7.2kW are all very close together - are you sure a ring is the most appropriate design?

the idea was to have isolating switch.

planning to install 30A fuse for new circuit.

If your CU is old enough to have fuses, what does it have in the way of RCDs? And are they rewirable fuses?

Is it safe to install spur for gas hob (0.6W) from w/m socket?

Yes.

View media item 30994

But what doesn't look safe is the route the cable takes from the bottom FCU - it might be the angle of the photo but it looks as if it strays outside the zones.

And what route will the supply cables take to get to those FCUs?

 

[AndreJay]

accessible junction box for circuit extension on right side.

Replacing the cables or crimping would be better.

> kitchen sockets were part of upstairs ring mains. it would mean crimping the old cables to close the upstairs ring and install new ring for kitchen only. Unfortunately, my CU is old MK box and only one fuse slot left, which I planned to use for kitchen appliances.

installed new ring circuit cabling for oven (2400W) + microwave (2750W) and w/m (2050W) and back boxes of above-worktop isolating switches for appliances with unaccessible plugs.

Sockets contain screwed joints - they must not be inaccessible.

> they can be accessed when appliances removed. I understood that the rule was to have isolating switch for plugs behind appliances.


The FCUs for those appliances totalling 7.2kW are all very close together - are you sure a ring is the most appropriate design?

> I'm not sure. What are possible consequences?
Would you recommend radial circuit (+ 4mm cable)?

the idea was to have isolating switch.

> this would have been so much easier, only one back box to fix.

planning to install 30A fuse for new circuit.

If your CU is old enough to have fuses, what does it have in the way of RCDs? And are they rewirable fuses?

>Old MK box, rewirable fuses, no RCD.

View media item 30994

But what doesn't look safe is the route the cable takes from the bottom FCU - it might be the angle of the photo but it looks as if it strays outside the zones.

> part picture, part wasn't fixed in final position.


And what route will the supply cables take to get to those FCUs?

> to the left from FCU towards corner, then down within 150mm zone, under the floor fixed to the joists lower then 50mm from floorboards and up through the floor into CU in the cabed under the stairs.

I really want to get the things done right way.
Thank you very much for spoon feeding me!