Kitchen Socket Positions

[pforeman]

Hi,

I'm just renovating my house and am just chasing all the walls and putting back boxes for all the new socket locations in the kitchen and I have a question.

We are having a raised double oven in one side of the kitchen and have chased a socket ready for the 6/10mm cable ring and I also assume that the hob (Other side of the kitchen) will also be part of this 6/10mm ring.

Will the extractor hob also be part of this dedicated 6/10mm ring or will it be part of the standard socket ring?
And what be required, a standard socket or will it be a hard wired fussed box?

Also all the built in appliances have got sockets under the worktop will these require isolating fused switches above the work surface?

Thanks for your guidance.

Cheers
Pete

 

[EFLImpudence]

We are having a raised double oven in one side of the kitchen and have chased a socket ready for the 6/10mm cable ring and I also assume that the hob (Other side of the kitchen) will also be part of this 6/10mm ring.

That size cable won't go in a socket and it won't be a ring.
The hob may need a separate circuit.
It should run to a Cooker Control Switch and then a Cooker Connection Unit.
Likely 4mm² will be adequate.

Will the extractor hob also be part of this dedicated 6/10mm ring or will it be part of the standard socket ring?
And what be required, a standard socket or will it be a hard wired fussed box?

It's up to you. I like it on the cooker circuit.

Also all the built in appliances have got sockets under the worktop will these require isolating fused switches above the work surface?

Not fused, no.
Switches are again up to you.

Thanks for your guidance.

No disrespect meant but It would appear that you need more than guidance.
You do need an electrician.

There are cable safe zones to consider among quite a lot else.
You could have a look in the Wiki for some idea of what may be involved.

 

[pforeman]

Thank you for your response, no offence taken.

I do have an electrician, I'm just doing a bit of the donkey work of the chasing of the walls before he comes. (He's away this weekend so just asking a couple of additional questions.)

BTW when I said socket I meant back box (for the cooker connection unit).

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Don't forget to put extra deep backboxes in for the cooker/hob isolator and outlet plates, I tend to use a 6mm radial circuit for cooking appliances, depending on the overall output and location of the two appliance, it could be possible to power them off the one circuit but I personally prefer two.
I also prefer to keep the ex-fan off the the cooking appliance circuit, the output of the hood generally allows for it to be connected up to lighting circuit or you could fuse spur from sockets. Again an isolation switch for hob would be desired. I would also fit above counter isolation for the kitchen appliance.
Damn rude of the electrician you employed to go on holiday at such an inconvenient time, without either leaving circuit diagrams with full instruction or a direct line to his customer service phone line.
I hope you are not telling us any porkies, as some on here frown upon that!

As per previous mentioned, a lot more to routing cables and sinking back boxes than just chasing in and securing cables.
Permitted safe routes, permitted depths of chase, location of accessories to prevent danger to the user and damage to flex and plugs, de-rating factors, protection of cables from stress and damage when installed and whilst installing. Beside making sure the circuit design is suitable for purpose.
There is a legal duty to make sure everything is safe when installed and a notification procedure for new circuits.

 

[pforeman]

Yes was told to use deep back boxes for those 2 and horizontal/vertical chases only. (no deeper than 3cm vertical and 1.5cm horizontal chases. 4" block wall) etc and min distances from the hob/sink locations.

Although I have the locations of the boxes I don't have the diagram plan so I just wanted a discussion about how these things are normally done to understand more. I have a whole house that is being knocked about as well as being rewired including the CU and obviously have professionals doing it. (Apart from where I can help with what I can.)

So yes I'm telling the truth about having a electrician why the hell wouldn't I!! There I thought I'd ask a little question to understand the subject better (With no intention of doing the wiring myself, but with an eagerness to learn more about the subject when I can't ask my normal source of information so I used a forum designed for the subject and I get called a lier in so many words.)
Just because people think the internet is anonymous, people get a little bit uncourteous. If someone asked this question in person I feel the response would be very different!

Anyway been out today so will wait for my sparky to pop in tomorrow to advise and continue.

Thanks!

 

[ericmark]

Working on larger houses some times the distance between consumer unit and kitchen needs some out of the box thinking to reduce the volt drop including the lollipop design. But in the main we use grid switches to supply under counter sockets because the grid switch will only take two 2.5mm² cables in each terminal although in theory we could use a single 4mm² cable to feed the switches in practice we use two 2.5mm² cables are wire like a ring. It is not a true final ring it's two conductors in parallel so the 32A limit does not really apply however most treat it like a ring. The same applies to the 2kW rule since not a true ring using it to supply fixed appliances over 2kW is still OK.

However this design is down to the electrician and some will insist on separate supply back to consumer unit for fixed appliances over 2kW so one has to follow your electricians plans.

The phrase "I will be getting an electrician to do the work" has come to mean "I don't want a lecture about Part P." hence why people on here have reservations about giving advice to people wanting to cut corners and do a botch up job. Sorry if you have been given wrong label but it is so common we have come to expect it.

I personally hate the grid switch they are a real pain to get wires into and one has to be so careful nothing pops out when being pushed into place. Using other switches however is also a problem finding ones with high enough rating and also with RCD protection double pole switching is far better so to use a standard switched FCU makes a lot of sense even if really you don't need the fuse. It also means if some one at a latter date swaps a single socket for a double or even more there is no problem in overloading the switch.

It is often down to personal preference not a right and wrong way.

Another point with FCU is that the circuit can be locked off. The fuse carrier is designed to take a lock so one can't put the fuse back in handy when something goes faulty and you want to stop it's use. The triple pole switches used for extractor fan can be locked off but most do not have the provision for fitting locks. In real terms normal is a cable tie as still needs a tool to be removed so complies with regulations.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Yes was told to use deep back boxes for those 2 and horizontal/vertical chases only. (no deeper than 3cm vertical and 1.5cm horizontal chases. 4" block wall) etc and min distances from the hob/sink locations.

Sounds fine to me.

Although I have the locations of the boxes I don't have the diagram plan so I just wanted a discussion about how these things are normally done to understand more. I have a whole house that is being knocked about as well as being rewired including the CU and obviously have professionals doing it. (Apart from where I can help with what I can.)

Nothing wrong with helping out, providing you have informed instructions on how to carry out the tasks you intend to do, and coming to this website/forum a great deal of knowledge can be gained by looking in "Wiki" and asking questions.

So yes I'm telling the truth about having a electrician why the hell wouldn't I!!

Believe me some don't!

There I thought I'd ask a little question to understand the subject better (With no intention of doing the wiring myself, but with an eagerness to learn more about the subject when I can't ask my normal source of information so I used a forum designed for the subject and I get called a lier in so many words.)

Well without trying to sound harsh, it happens all the time, people claiming their electrician is on holiday and then asking for advice regarding circuit routes and designs. I know if I were installing at a property and my client asked if they could help out with chasing, routing and even installing the cables for first fix, they would be well versed in the procedures and tasks they were undertaking, prior to me packing my factor 10!
So hope you can appreciate that, all I asked was for some transparency, I don't really care if you have an electrician or not. If I did I would not have offered you the advice I did, which I hope you also appreciate.

Just because people think the internet is anonymous, people get a little bit uncourteous. If someone asked this question in person I feel the response would be very different!

I don't believe I or anyone else have yet been discourteous, if some one would have asked me the same question in person, I would have give them the same answer and asked the same questions. Even though the internet maybe considered anonymous, I still feel I have a duty of care and have to consider the safety of the person asking the question, their family, friends, pets, guests and neighbours. Is that unreasonable?

Anyway been out today so will wait for my sparky to pop in tomorrow to advise and continue.

Fair enough!