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kitchen worktop idea?

Discussion in 'Wood / Woodwork / Carpentry' started by artylarry, 28 Jan 2015.

  1. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    Why a fitter would you need to pay? Always install them yourself, you could.

    It's not really a good idea to glue a thick solid timber surface onto plywood (quite apart from the fact that plywood is generally only available in 2440mm lengths - 10 x 5s are trade, but minimum order quantity, i.e. half or one pack in the main, unless you are very lucky). Timber expands and contracts with changes in the atmospheric moisture content (e.g. summer to winter, rainy days to sunny days, etc). Plywood, being made from cross-laminated thin (2 to 3mm thick) veneers and a lot of glue (circa 25 to 30%) is far more stable. So the best you could expect would be delamination, the worst buckling. That's why you never see this done commercially.

    Why? Did you know that Corian worktops are actually only 12mm thick in the middle? The front and rear are supported with MDF strips and are built-down. When making-up 150mm oak counter tops for receptions, etc we don't actually use 150mm thick oak - we use 1in and build an apron downwards at the front. A similar approach could be adopted with 1in thick oak
     
  2. FrogParty

    FrogParty

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    Just to be clear I wasn't offering to sell oak! I have sourced oak worktop as described for my own furniture projects, that was the best price I could find anywhere.

    For 2.8m I suspect you are going to have to join pieces, that is not hard unlike lifting big pieces of oak can be. Not sure why you want thicker? The 25mm is strong enough, and like J&K says add a lip for visual effect. Good luck.
     
  3. foxhole

    foxhole

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    I got 3m oak worktops [28mm] from Selco at £90 + vat.
     
  4. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    At that price why kill yourself to convert your own?
     
  5. FrogParty

    FrogParty

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    That is a good price, shame I'm not a trader but good to know.

    +1 to not killing yourself making your own!
     
  6. artylarry

    artylarry

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    Ok guys, im almost convinced. I have applied for selco cash account just so i can see prices... and looking into some ebay stores.
    Am i right to be worried about buying cheap? Could quality be a problem?

    Many thanks for all your input.

    As regards to motives for home made, it wasn't just to save money, i may not have even managed it any cheaper. But really fancied trying to make something different and unique, bit of character to an old and haggard kitchen. But it seems there may be more problems than its worth...

    Its fine frog, no probs thanks for looking.

    I am, however genuinely worried about joining them myself. I guess that home made is more forgiving if mistakes are made.
    👍
     
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  7. cjard

    cjard

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    You didn't count eh number of sleepers you required and weren't particularly clear on what a pair was (before or after cutting) so I just took your worst case £200, assumed £25 was for a "pair of chunks-of-wood-65x220x1800", ergo a single chunk was £12.50 thereby dividing £200 by 12.50 to get to the numbers of chunks of wood you needed -> 16

    You then said (effectively) you'd rip 20mm off each which allowed me to imply that you needed a 600mm deep worktop. Knowing the depth and length and count of your boards allows me to derive the area you need to cover



    So.. you're capable of making your own worktop out of railway sleepers, but you're not capable of fitting a chunk of wood you bought on ebay?

    Odd

    Hey; you're the one trying to be penny-wise. By buying wood that's already been professionally made into a worktop and sold as a worktop you'd be better guaranteed that it will not warp, crack or split. Cheapest/saving make/blah

    So, you're not buying the cheapest sleepers you can lay your hands on? And you're not going to get the job done as fast as you're able, so you can bump up your own self-labour costs out of the "cheapest does not always a saving make" territory?

    Assign a price to them; it might help you work out where you're being penny wise and pound foolish

    More crackpot ideas.. Instead of messing around with creosote and diesel soaked sleepers or chemically enhanced flooring, you should really go and do a few days paid work for someone and buy a worktop that's sold as a worktop. It'll solve a lot of these problems and after all, you didn't make your sink, did you?
     
  8. cjard

    cjard

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    No it's not. It's worse than the £130 INCLUDING VAT, free delivery, 3m long 40mm thick one I linked to on ebay

    By the time VAT is added to the Selco one it's at £108. After taking time and fuel driving down to Selco and back it's past £130, and it's only a 28mm top..

    +1 for buying in rather than making, but now's the time to be more careful with the procurement. Could probably even ring the ebay guy up and offer to bank transfer him the money to save on his fees (which are probably 10-15% knowing what a bunch of sharks ebay/paypal are)
     
  9. cjard

    cjard

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    (plenty of youtube tutorials on how to distress wood)
     
  10. artylarry

    artylarry

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    Woah there cowboy, Im after advice in regard to potential problems from an 'idea' i had, am open to suggestions and have had some great advice So far. I did however say im all but convinced its not feasible and am now looking at alternatives In my last post!

    ''you should really go and do a few days paid work'' since i am to busy working i would find that difficult? don't be so quick to judge... if i could afford a new kitchen i wouldn't be on here!

    Crackpot ideas? You really do know more then the rest of the WWW... as i got the idea from numerous posts from 'successful' projects using ply and flooring or just plain pine. Most do not have proof of longevity but im sure they had fun trying!

    So, distressing new wood tops? Not thought about that, although im not sure im brave enough though.

    My only experience with a router is fitting 10mm intumescent strips on few fire doors with £25 router. Im worried im going to ruin £400 worth of worktops plus cost of router/ bits and jig being wasted. I want to learn skills but do not like waste.

    Anyway, I am leaning towards buying new and having a go myself. But need a router, but this would dedefinitelyave to be on a budget. Anybody have a thought as to starting price range that would do the job, maybe a particular model,
    Also anything else i would have to look for?

    Thank you all for input so far [/quote]
     
  11. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    OK. If you go for a worktop with a square edge you'd be able to butt joint the pieces at corners (there are corners, aren't there?). For that you need a circular saw - but as you need to saw to length you'll need a circular saw in any case. For 40mm thick oak I'd be looking for something like a 190mm saw with a 40 to 60 tooth blade. The Belfast sink cut-out could be done by boring the corners with something like a 30mm auger (or even a spade bit, if new and sharp) then joining up the holes very carefully with a circular saw (again) and finishing the cuts with a hand saw. The difficulty there would be making a plunging cut and I'd consider making up a saw guide and raising one edge so as to make a ramping entry into the timber with a small blade projection - then making several passes increasing the projection each time until you can dispense with the guide and finish the through cut. In the work environment IU use a Festool plunge saw and guide rail to do this, but that's in orbit (price wise) for a hobbyist, so I'm not suggesting it.

    Any radii (rounded-over edges), the falling drainer (if required) and the drip groove (on the underside of the Belfast cut-out) could then be worked by a relatively small plunge router.

    If on the other hand you opt to use a radius-edged worktop and need to use a worktop jointing jig and/or you opt to do your sink cut-out with the router, you'll need a 1/2in plunge router of at least 1750 watts power rating. Also needed would be a 30mm guide bush (for the jig - should come with almost any 1/2in plunge router) and a 1/2in diameter (NOT 12mm metric) x 50mm long cutter. Favourites amongst the joiners I know are the deWalt DW625 and Makita RP2301FCX - but the cheapest DW625 is circa £250 and the Mak is even more expensive. The only reasonable alternative I know of at the moment is the Hitachi M12VE available at around £150 from some suppliers, such as FFX. Take this as someone speaking from a trade perspective, though, where the tool MUST last for years. As a DIYer there are cheaper alternatives, e.g. the Erbauer 2100w from screwfix at £71 and any number of Chinese routers - it's just that I couldn't recommend any of them as I've never used them. BTW don't believe anyone who says this can be done with a 1/4in plunge router - therein lies madness!
     
  12. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    To that what I'd say is this - the 'net isn't a collection of facts, it is merely a set of opinions........ Even mine. But my opinion is that of an experienced, trained, qualified chippy and I can at least give you chapter and verse on where to research why combining plywood and solid wood doesn't work (and if you'd like to start I'd recommend Prof. Bruce Hoadley's "Understanding Wood" ISBN-10: 1561583588 - required reading for anyone studying furniture making or timber construction technology at HNC/HND/degree level if a little turgid). The use of the term "crackpot" to describe the plywood/solid wood combination by CJARD whilst inflamatory, is nevertheless apt IMHO
     
  13. artylarry

    artylarry

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    Thanks j&k, square edge definatly, if i dont need male female joints great. I have jig and circular saws, hope they are adequate. Could i use router and guide to cut length to size?
    when i buy router, I would try to use it for butler sink and draining grooves. Could i make a jig for sink cutout i wonder? Im guessing two guide rails screwed onto underside of worktop. Or am i way off there.
    I have no idea how to do grooves, and would welcome any tips, can i buy jig for this?. Drip groove? I have no idea what that is, could you clarify please.

    Thanks for answer to router query, good place to start, would use it again if i can get the hang of it, light use still i guess. Could stretch around £100 so not loads of options. If hitachi good option i may try stretch budgeT.

    Im sorry for so many questions, want to learn from this.
     
  14. artylarry

    artylarry

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    i know what you mean about the 'facts' of the web. It may have been a crazy idea but when evidenced by several posts with stage pics as they go it seemed reasonable that it could work. Maybe more so for small peace or breakfast bar Tho than full length worktop.

    However, it wasn't that which i found to be inflammatory, and I apologize to cj if i read it wrong but the assumption that i am a lazy git that needs to go out and give work a spin for a change really ****ed me off. Never been out of work longer than a week and put all my time and energy into my family (wife and 3 nippers). I am on a budget and have to save and sacrifice for every penny, so find it vital to research as much as possible to get things right first time. This comment did influence the post as a whole...

    I may well try that book tho, as i dream of an apprentiship in woodwork. I wish it could pay the bills.

    P.s. would decent second hand router be worth the risk, or asking for trouble? 😆
     
  15. big-all

    big-all

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    blimey this thread has gone off on a bit off a tangent :D

    i have the older version off the hitch router would recommend both ffx and the router

    as said the webb is a great source but full off facts and miss information as jxk says

    we all take chances and have been bitten by our short cuts to some extent or other
    when i watch some off the utube style video "lessons" or how to and there level off what they think is ok they are working at a level where the colour drains out off my cheeks :eek:
    i will know what 100% is and aim for around 95-98%
    they will know perhaps 80% and aim for half that level :eek:
     
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