Knife Crime

[festive]

The solution to less crime is not more prison.
The solution to less crime is deal with the causes of crime

Police, criminal justice system, prisons, probation all very underfunded and failing.
We do need more robust prisons and a more robust system overall, but tougher sentences is not the solution.

OK so a thief broke into your house, beat you and your wife up, killed your dog, stole all your possessions left your wife with lifelong mental and physical scars and he's just been caught.

What do you suggest you do with him?

 

[sodthisforfun]

I don't think anyone says don't lock people up. But perhaps the correct sort of prison for some (NOT all) will help deter these people from committing another crime again when they get out. Rehab & education can stop a lot of people reoffending. Those people committing a serious crime, premeditated rape, murder, mucking around kids.. I think should be punished much more severely than they seem to be in the UK.

Helping with poverty, education and opportunity can lower crime figures, people commit less crime when happy with their life.

 

[Mottie]

Helping with poverty, education and opportunity can lower crime figures, people commit less crime when happy with their life.

I agree with that - for some people if caught early enough. Others, well, too far gone I’m afraid and they need severe punishment.

 

[Notch7]

OK so a thief broke into your house, beat you and your wife up, killed your dog, stole all your possessions left your wife with lifelong mental and physical scars and he's just been caught.

What do you suggest you do with him?

Jesus wept, how kin dumb are you people.

America decided to get tough on crime, incarceration increased from 200,000 prisoners to 2 million.
Crime dropped by 0

Go on Festive explain to me how that proves harsher sentences reduces crime.

And please explain how your example works.
Lets say that person crime would be 20 years currently.
Lets say the sentence becomes 30 years
Now give me some proof how that is a deterent to a violent nutter.

 

[Notch7]

I agree with that - for some people if caught early enough. Others, well, too far gone I’m afraid and they need severe punishment.

Repeat offenders and very severe violent crimes already recieve high sentences.
No doubt the current system is failing and some criminals are being released who commit more crime -the probation service needs to have its systems reviewed so the public are better protected.

Nevertheless, the fact is to reduce crime means reducing the causes of crime.
Not surprisingly, the countries with too much disparity between rich and poor, high levels of poverty, lack of opportunity -they suffer the highest crime.
Like America and UK......both with right wing governments.

 

[Mottie]

Nevertheless, the fact is to reduce crime means reducing the causes of crime.

Banning 'aspirational' music videos like this, and there are hundreds of them, would be a start as it influences a certain group of people in our society. You know, the ones who will never own one so thinks it’s okay to take someone else’s, even if they have to stab and kill them for it.

 

[JohnD]

It's a pity that there is still support in some quarters for the government policy of Prohibition, which maximises the profits of the illegal drug trade, and sucks new young recruits into organised crime and local gangs.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

It's a pity that there is still support in some quarters for the government policy of Prohibition, which maximises the profits of the illegal drug trade, and sucks new young recruits into organised crime and local gangs.

There is currently very little "prohibition" of drugs.

Cannabis, cocaine etc. are, in effect, legal and are a massive problem. The massive problem being due to the lack of this "prohibition".

Support drug takers and you are supporting law-breaking, and should therefore have no say in a civilised society (I.e. no right to vote).

I wonder how many non-drug fiends (I.e. law-abiding people) support legalisation?

 

[Deleted member 18243]

reduce crime means reducing the causes of crime.

There was far less crime in the past - in days of true poverty - than now. It's a person's upbringing, from their parents and from the society around them, that makes him a criminal. You seem to think that crime is an involuntary human reaction to poverty.

Criminals are the cause of crime.

 

[JohnD]

There was far less crime in the past

You have this fantasy of a golden age. It is based on nothing. Tell us what decade you have rattling around inside your head.

 

[JohnD]

There is currently very little "prohibition" of drugs.

Cannabis, cocaine etc. are, in effect, legal

WRONG.

They are sold exclusively through illegal channels. All the profits flow to criminals. There are no restrictions on what is sold, nor standards of strength and purity. There is no licensing of traders, and no taxes are paid.

Prohibition keeps the price up and funds international crime.

 

[festive]

Jesus wept, how kin dumb are you people.

America decided to get tough on crime, incarceration increased from 200,000 prisoners to 2 million.
Crime dropped by 0

Go on Festive explain to me how that proves harsher sentences reduces crime.

And please explain how your example works.
Lets say that person crime would be 20 years currently.
Lets say the sentence becomes 30 years
Now give me some proof how that is a deterent to a violent nutter.

Notch what's up, you been on the Babycham delusions of grandeur/advanced intelligence?

Read my question again, i was merely interested in how YOU would deal with such an offender. Shall i make it easier for you and offer multi choice, it's not hard don't get so defensive you big girls blouse.

I shall ask again if you believe sentencing isn't a deterrent, what would you do?

 

[festive]

Banning 'aspirational' music videos like this, and there are hundreds of them, would be a start as it influences a certain group of people in our society. You know, the ones who will never own one so thinks it’s okay to take someone else’s, even if they have to stab and kill them for it.

OMg you must be a racist there can be no other explanation!

 

[Notch7]

There was far less crime in the past - in days of true poverty - than now. It's a person's upbringing, from their parents and from the society around them, that makes him a criminal. You seem to think that crime is an involuntary human reaction to poverty.

Criminals are the cause of crime.

Countries with less inequality ie less extreme wealth and less poverty have less crime.

Notch what's up, you been on the Babycham delusions of grandeur/advanced intelligence?

Read my question again, i was merely interested in how YOU would deal with such an offender. Shall i make it easier for you and offer multi choice, it's not hard don't get so defensive you big girls blouse.

I shall ask again if you believe sentencing isn't a deterrent, what would you do?

Point out where I said sentencing is not a deterrent.

 

[JP_]

OK so a thief broke into your house, beat you and your wife up, killed your dog, stole all your possessions left your wife with lifelong mental and physical scars and he's just been caught.

What do you suggest you do with him?

I think you missed the point.

The question you need to ask is, how do we create a society where people don't need or want to do this?