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Labgear inputs

Discussion in 'Audio Visual' started by madge1, 11 Nov 2017.

  1. madge1

    madge1

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    evening all

    confusing one (for me at least).

    At the moment we have a Labgear LDU604G taking the aerial and splitting it three ways.

    Just got a FreeSat telly, and unsure where to put the input, and the output to use the satellite on one telly. The instructions are rubbish!

    Do i put the satellite input into LNB1 in, and the output i want onto LNB1 out?

    is that all i have to do?
    IMG_20171111_132953.jpg

    many thanks
     
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  3. big-all

    big-all

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    freesat needs a satelite dish and a seperate feed
     
  4. Lucid

    Lucid

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    Just checking, but have you got an ex-Sky satellite dish on the wall? Is the LNB working? Is the dish pointing in the right direction still?

    The answer has to be Yes to all those questions before you can go any further.

    Next, typical Sky installs have the sat cables going directly to the living room where the installer usually places the main box. If this is where your new TV lives then consider just taking the feed to it directly. Don't go via the Labgear amp. It's a lot of extra wiring for no benefit.


    Your install may be different from the above, so if you still want- or need- to connect the satellite feed to the LDU604 then here's how. Take the LNB feed coming from the dish and connect it to LNB 2 IN. This mixes that signal with the aerial(s) and pipes the whole lot down to the triplex wall plates around your house. Your new TV has one input for Freeview and one input for the satellite tuner. This means if you want both Freeview and Freesat to work then there should be two coax cables from the wall plate to the back of the TV.
     
  5. madge1

    madge1

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    hi

    thanks for the replies. Should have said (but a beer got in the way!) we already have a freesat TV in another room that takes another feed, so i know the satellite dish etc works well. This was a new install when the rest of the house was rewired a few years ago.

    At the moment, the old Freeview TV takes its feed from what i would consider the satellite F connector, rather than the normal aerial connector (the plates only have two outputs).

    So all i should need to do is connect to LNB2 in, and then do I need to flip the little button to Sat from UHF/cctv?

    or, as i don't care about freeview on the TV anymore, is it a case of entering via LNB1in and connecting the correct output cable to LNB1out?

    thanks
     
    Last edited: 12 Nov 2017
  6. Lucid

    Lucid

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    F connectors can be used for TV as well as for satellite.Just because the connection is using an F connector doesn't automatically make it a satellite signal.

    I was never a fan of putting satellite signals through distribution amps. It encourages people to think that one sat feed can be shared for two or more locations the same as happens with TV. The signal don't work in the same way though. In a basic install each sat device needs it's own direct feed from the LNB on the dish.

    It sound like you have an LNB feed going directly to the older Freesat TV so that's okay and not an issue.

    Do as I said in my previous reply. If you want the amp to send the sat signal out of the sockets on the amp that also supply/supplied Freeview to the various TV points in your home then it needs to be mixed with that signal. So, even if you have abandoned Free view - taken down the aerial - ripped out all the TV aerial coax feed going to the amp and no longer have anything connected to the UHF input, you still connect to LNB 2 because that's the input that mixes and distributes Sat to all the 4 OUT sockets on the amp. Oh, and flick the switch to Sat too.

    Your alternative is an extra hour buggering about trying to work out which of the 4 outs goes to the room, then disconnecting that wire and plugging it in to LNB 1 Out and then connecting the sat feed to LNB 1 IN. It's up to you. It doesn't look like you have anything connected to FM and DAB anyway so it's not like you'd lose the radio signals.

    If the second option was your preferred choice then I'd personally bypass the Lab gear altogether and just use an F-type back-to-back connector to feed the sat signal direct to the wire leading to the room. It removes a potential failure point and avoids the signal reduction and extra noise that could affect the signal.
     
  7. madge1

    madge1

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    grand. many thanks for that. I'll try it into lnb2, and if that doesn't work i'll try and work out which is the correct output.

    many thanks for the replies!
     
  8. madge1

    madge1

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    so i got the telly.

    can't get the signal to reach the socket in the wall.

    if i connect a cable direct from the satellite dish to the telly, it works. If i connect the satellite to the cable that runs to the wall socket, it doesn't work., it can't find a satellite. It does work with freeview (normal aerial).

    Any idea what i'm doing wrong? Surely if the cable can carry the freeview signal, it should be able to carry a satellite signal?
     
  9. Lucid

    Lucid

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    Probably because the connections to the back of the wall plate are directional, and there are frequency filters, and you probably haven't got direct connections in the way that would make it possible to stuff the satellite LNB signal in to any old hole and make it come out right.



    From the sound of your description you've got the satellite LNB signal lead(s) coming in to the room right next to the telly virtually. So why the hell do you think you need to put them in to a socket on the wall only to have them travel half way round the house before coming out of another socket an inch or less away and to then have another cable from the wall going to the back of the TV?

    Just plug the damned signal in to the back of the telly and have done with it... lol



    This is how your Labgear should be wired ONLY IF your satellite LNB signals go directly in to the loft. But yours don't.


    Disti amp.jpg


    In the diagram above I have arrows marking the directionality of the signal, and I have used colour coding to indicate frequency ranges.


    Directionality is important. Signals flow in a direction from a source to sink device (sink device = a recorder, a tuner, a TV display, an amplifier etc). So just like traffic has a flow, and you wouldn't (I hope) consider driving the wrong way down one side of a motorway, then with signals you mustn't feed a signal in to a socket or up a cable that has a signal in the opposite flow.

    Look at the diagram. Both the satellite outputs on the wall plate are "traffic flowing towards you " sockets. These are outputs. When you have the cable in your hand from the LNB then the signal in that is flowing towards you too. Connect the cable to the socket as above and you'll have two signals heading towards each other - A big crash.

    Frequency is important. Look at the diagram again. The only socket on the wall plate designed to take a signal back up to the amp is the Return socket. This is a "traffic flowing away from you " socket. It's an input. However, it can only take a certain size of traffic flow. The size is dictated by the frequency. Lower frequencies are the equivalent of smaller vehicles on the road. For this example, FM / DAB / TV signals are the equivalent of motorbikes, cars and small vans. Satellite signals would be like HGVs. Now imagine this road has a low bridge. Cars, bikes and small vans can get under, but HGVs would crash in to the bridge. That's how the Return socket works. It will let FM / DAB / TV signals pass, but will block Satellite LNB signals.
     
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  11. madge1

    madge1

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    thanks

    the satellite input is some way from the room (as is the normal aerial); hence the need to put it through to the distribution unit. we're in a very long house

    As far as i'm aware, the cable from the distribution unit to the wall connection is just a cable, with no filters or directional aspect.

    the satellite feed does go directly to the loft; i know, as i put it in last week.

    the wall plate has two connectors; one coaxial, one f connector. i've taken it off the wall; there are two wires there, one to each connector. The normal aerial goes into the f connector. It's not the fact it splits is it?
     
  12. Lucid

    Lucid

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    Why am I getting the feeling that the information keeps changing? In a previous post you said "if i connect a cable direct from the satellite dish to the telly, it works." Now you're saying that those cables are in the loft.

    Also, I never said cables were directional. I said that the signals flowing through them are directional. That's because the devices attached to the ends of those cables have directional sockets. We call them inputs and outputs.

    Nor did I say that cables filter signals. Decent ones have their bandwidth limits of course, but as long as the cable being used is up to the job and undamaged then it will pass any signals up to its spec for bandwidth and distance.

    What is filtered is sockets on devices. A regular TV aerial input has a window of acceptable signal frequencies. So it will ignore signals above and below that frequency band. It is filtered. A regular satellite box input accepts frequencies in its operating range and ignore those out of range. It is filtered. Your aerial distribution amplifier works in the same way.

    From the description of your wall plate it sounds like someone did a cheap-ass job on installation. That suggests to me that they have probably done a half-arsed job with the wiring too. You have two cable exits at the wall socket, but there's no guarantee that both are connected at the amplifier end.

    I'm going to cut to the chase because I feel like this is a fruitless task with ever-changing source info.

    1) Plug the satellite cable in to LNB 2
    2) Flick the switch to SAT
    3) At the wall plate move the cable connected to coax socket to F connector
    4) Make your connection to the TV's Sat input

    If that doesn't work then you're going to have to buzz out the wires to see what the hell is going on.
     
  13. madge1

    madge1

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    info is not ever changing (but thanks for the thought)

    i've connected a wire from the satellite dish to the loft. As the wire was 30m i could then take it through the house to the telly. it worked. i could then connect it to the distribution point. it didn't work.

    at the moment (as previously mentioned) the normal aerial goes through the F connector. Taking the plate off the wall, there are two wires; one to the f connector, one to the coax.

    there are three outputs in the loft. Three cables to three points. I dont know where the one point becomes two in the plate. connecting the input from the lnb to the output two doesnt work

    but thanks for your help. Without knowing quite what the electrician did ive got no idea what to do.
     
  14. Lucid

    Lucid

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    All of the information you need is posted in this thread. Some of it repeated a number of times.

    Once again...

    1) Plug the satellite cable in to LNB 2
    2) Flick the switch to SAT
    3) At the wall plate move the cable connected to coax socket to F connector
    4) Make your connection to the TV's Sat input

    If that doesn't work then you're going to have to buzz out the wires to see what the hell is going on.
     
  15. madge1

    madge1

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    yeah, on the repeating thing, points 1-4 don't work. hence the questions.

    but thanks for your time
     
  16. Lucid

    Lucid

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    Points 1, 2 & 4 simply follow the instructions for the amp.

    Given that you said you get Freeview signal from the wall socket - which then suggests you might be getting that signal from the loft distribution amp - , then point 3 simply accounts for changing the connection at the TV end so that you have a Sat signal to plug in to the TVs Sat tuner input. Just checking, but you are doing this bit, yeah? You're not plugging in to the ordinary aerial input and expecting the TV to pick up satellite signals on the aerial tuner?

    If none of the above works then refer to the final line which is to buzz out your connections to find out how the spark has wired your home. Or at the very least, connect back up for Freeview and then unplug the amp to see if the Freeview signal disappears. If it does, then it suggests that at least one of the three outputs is connected between the amp and the TV which is a good start.

    If all else fails then simply connect the satellite feed directly to whichever cable feeds the lounge(?) and be done with the amp for that TV.
     
  17. madge1

    madge1

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    Output 2 in the loft is the one I need.

    It works when it's connected to the distribution point - with Freeview.

    If I disconnect it from the distribution point, and connect it to the satellite dish lead - which I know works - and change the input into the telly, it doesn't work. Obviously the freeview has gone as well, as I've disconnected that connection

    I am changing the input at the telly end when I'm altering the input in the loft.

    If you think there are three parts

    1) aerial (either freeview or freesat) to loft
    2) wire from loft to wall plate
    3) wire to TV (either freesat or freeview input)

    when both 1 and 3 are freeview, it works
    when both 1 and 3 are freesat, it doesn't

    that is all I'm changing. It implies there is something to do with the wire in part 2 - but I cannot think what.
     
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