Laminate worktops - jointing

[kevin_robson]

Sorry to hear that. I'm dreading the stuff not turning up right after I've ripped out the old kitchen.
Sounds like I might be letting you know how I get on rather than the other way around. Where did you get youre colorfill from by the way, or are you not using it?

 

[garyslater]

I think I would advise waiting until you have everything you need before setting a date to start work - especially as we seem to have shops that don't deliver when they say they will!! I will be using colourfill but haven't bought it yet - was planning on contacting the manufacturers to find out what they suggest as the best colour match.

 

[Scrit]

was planning on contacting the manufacturers to find out what they suggest as the best colour match.

You may find that they don't know, after all it is quite subjective (especially on "aggregate" and pattern worktops). A lot of fitters carry a small selection (say 6 to 9) of the most common colours plus a few coloured silicones. I've been known to mix two colours with a spatula to get a better match. If you can't get a good match then clear silicone can be used, same as black silicone works well on black and dark grey tops, but try to buy a decent quality "runny" silicone rather than cheap DIY stuff. The extra couple of quid makes all the difference.

PS B&Q Warehouses stock some Trend colour fillers and if it's a timber pattern top then most laminate flooring stock a "repair/patch compound" which is exactly the same thing

Scrit

 

[joe-90]

One common problem when doing the 'male' cut is that when you push down on the router the front of the jig dips and the cutter undercuts. Clamp battens across the edge to stop this.

Also, when you make your last pass on the 10mm passes and the laminate is face down, make sure the bit goes well past the surface rather than just level with it or you'll get a rough edge.

 

[garyslater]

Thanks very much Joe and Scrit - as always good advice - just need the worktops now to get going!!

 

[kevin_robson]

My worktops are the block wood effect type anyway, so in that case I will just use the floor filler. Is this waterproof etc too?

Cheers

 

[Scrit]

My worktops are the block wood effect type anyway, so in that case I will just use the floor filler. Is this waterproof etc too?

As a rule, yes

Scrit

 

[kevin_robson]

Sorry, to hijack the thread Gary but I've a couple of queries now that I have started practicing.

"7)..Make sure the cutter is cutting OUT of your finished join line. That is when pulling the cutter towards you, it should be cutting clockwise, coming out of the finished cut. "

I'm struggling to understand which way the router should gofor which joint. Could someone explain the above statement please?

Also I have a 1850W router, 10000-23000 rpm. It has a speed dial running 1-7. What sort of speed to I want to be using for cutting. Fastest, slowest or in the middle?

Had the same problem as Gary re the length of the cutters. I think the one I was using was 50mm, but the collar and jig must take up around 15mm hence I have to pull it down. My bit pack has a longer one (63mm) but I am hoping to save this for the real thing. I also have a short one which is labelled as a 'laminite cutter' - do I need to use this or can I just use the longer ones right from the off. Or should I be starting with the smallest for the first pass, then moving to the medium, then the long for the last pass?

The link for these is http://www.silverlinetools.com/index.html?code=719769 - scroll down to 4PCE TCT KITCHEN ROUTER BIT SET

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Scrit]

I'm struggling to understand which way the router should gofor which joint. Could someone explain the above statement please?

Simple rules of thumb:

1. Always push the router away from you rather than pulling towards you
2. The workpiece is always to the left of the router and the scrap to the right.
3. Always set-up the jig so that the entry point is into the laminate edge and the exit point is out of an edge with NO laminate one it. On a left hand female joint this means turning the worktop over and placing the jig on the bottom
4. Always ensure that the material beneath the jig is adequately supported - I use three or four folding trestles. If you do that - and you should do - and clamp up your jig to the workpiece then the piece of advice given by Joe about the jig flexing above is superfluous. The jig should be flat on the worktop and the worktop should be supported so that it can't bend.
5. Depth of cut - a decent 1850mm router should be able to end trim a worktop in 4 or 5 passes. 1350watt routers struggle to achieve this and should be avoided. In general for routing the rule is that depth of cut should be no greater that diameter of cutter, so if you aim for a 10 to 12mm increment each time you cut you'll be allright. BTW a lower-powered router will not be able to cut this 12 x 12 mm (approx.) section as it simply doesn't have the power.

Also I have a 1850W router, 10000-23000 rpm. It has a speed dial running 1-7. What sort of speed to I want to be using for cutting. Fastest, slowest or in the middle?

The fastest (7). Slower speeds are for cutters over 1in in diameter (18,000 rpm) or 2in diameter panel raisers (10 to 12,000rpm)

Had the same problem as Gary re the length of the cutters.

Make all the cuts in a single joint with the same cutter - they might have slightly different diameters (yes, really). Note that a SINGLE good quality cutter such as a Titman, Freud, CMT, Trend (the proper ones, not T-Tech) or even Faithful and it will do two or three joints and probably a couple of worktop ends. Cheaper ones like the Trend T-Tech will start to go off by the end of the above. Silverline, Screwfix, etc and other cheap crap is best avoided - like the plague. If you do this job regularly you can tell if the cutter is sharp enough - it doesn't scream it's head off in cut and the router doesn't bog down either.

Scrit

 

[kevin_robson]

Cheers. That helps a lot.
I'll see if I can get a better cutter. If I cant I'll have to make best of what I have.

 

[kevin_robson]

Gary,
I thought I'd let you know how I got on, and maybe give you a few pointers from one novice to another.

Basically I'm pretty happy with the joints. They fit 99% perfectly, but the colorseal masks the other 1% pretty well. It was also pretty time consuming in the end - not really sure where the time went actually.

A few thoughts on reflection:
1. The tools were rubbish. Clamps were a waste of time and we ended up buying two G clamps from B and Q. The others kept sliding.
2. The depth plunge locking handle also snapped meaning we had to lock it using a spanner, and effectively making it a 2 man job. I bought the more powerful orange router.
3. Only the 63mm bit is long enough to cut these worktops in the router I had, once the thickness of the jig is taken into account. Fortunately I bought an extra box of bits. You can use the shorter ones for the bolt holes.
4. 10mm is too much to take off at a time comfortably. I smidge over 5mm is all I'd go to in order to protect the cut and the router bit. Better bits may be able to take more off.
5. Ensure the router is fully stopped before removing it. Otherwise the jig will get cut
6. Make sure you either support the front edge, or constantyly remind yourself that you are pulling towards yourself BUT putting the weight on the side of worktop away from yourself. Otherwise when it cuts through the router will drop and make a bad cut. I'd also suggest a friend holds the worktop so it doesn't just snap and fall to the ground.
7 When you come to bolt it together and apply the colorseal, turn the worktop on its side to apply the colorseal. Its so runny most of it will go on the floor if you try to apply it when horizontal. Dont worry about mess - the solvent is very good despite my concerns. The colorseal is now on sale at both Wickes and B and Q.
8. Before you cut the female joints check whether your kitchen walls are square by putting the other piece of worktop in place - it will be difficult to tell once you have cut the female joint. Mine was square fortunately - someone else will be able to advise what to do if it isn't - I believe you adjust the male.
9. Leave the male worktops long if you can as you can have another go if you mess it up.
10. The other tip was to keep your practice pieces handy as a sanity check before cutting. Put it next to the jig face up/down and ensure the cut matches.

I think thats about it. Hope some of this helps you. Apologies for stating the obvious, and apologies to all the 'experts' who already know this stuff as obvious, but some of it I hadn't realised myself.

Finally, thanks to all who have contributed to this post, it made the whole process much easier.

 

[Scrit]

Kevin, from the point of view of someone in the trade here's another take:

1. The tools were rubbish. Clamps were a waste of time and we ended up buying two G clamps from B and Q. The others kept sliding.

I always use my own cramps (Wolfcraft QAs) which work well with larger routers. Smaller underpowered routers are more liable to shift the jig if it's not clamped down extremely well. You'll get the same problem with cutters which have blunted.

3. Only the 63mm bit is long enough to cut these worktops in the router I had, once the thickness of the jig is taken into account. Fortunately I bought an extra box of bits. You can use the shorter ones for the bolt holes.

Which makes another case for buying a proper trade router, such as a DW625, Makita 3612C, Hitachi M12, etc. The trade routers will cut worktops with a 50mm cutter because they generally have a 60mm plunge deoth - and it's the plunge depth which is significant

4. 10mm is too much to take off at a time comfortably. I smidge over 5mm is all I'd go to in order to protect the cut and the router bit. Better bits may be able to take more off.

Not so much better bits as better routers! A 1350watt router simply isn't powerful enough to make deep cuts in my experience. I use a deWalt DW625 (1850watts) and with a reasonable quality bit, such as a Wealden, Titman, Trend (even T-Tech), Faithfull, Triton, Freud, etc 100mm a cut is easily achievable. The fact that you can't achieve 10mm is really down to insufficient power and not so much to the quality of the cutter. The better quality cutters do, however, have the big advantage that they hold an edge much longer and chip-out less, so it is just about possible to get a complete small kitchen out of a single decent bit, i.e. two joints and one or two ends.

5. Ensure the router is fully stopped before removing it. Otherwise the jig will get cut

Actually the proper technique is to withdraw the cutter (un-plunge the router) at the end of the cut. But then again a trade router will allow you to withdraw a 50mm cutter out of harms way whereas a cheaper router (with insifficient depth of plunge) still leaves a bit of cutter sticking out at the bottom

7. When you come to bolt it together and apply the colorseal, turn the worktop on its side to apply the colorseal. Its so runny most of it will go on the floor if you try to apply it when horizontal.

Alternatively wrap a bit of masking tape around your finger and spread the sealant..... Saves having to roll a worktop on edge

8. ........someone else will be able to advise what to do if it isn't - I believe you adjust the male.

Correct. Pivot the jig from the front

Scrit

 

[garyslater]

Hi guys - thanks for those tips - Kevin I am glad that the worktops went well and you are pleased with it - have also been reading your other posts hope everything else is going just as well. The worktops have now arrived - will be buying the additional bits and pieces over the next week (including new clamps as I have also noticed that they slip when using them to cut window boards and laminate flooring) and start work on them during the Easter break.

One thing I have noticed is that the units (I am not replacing those) have tops on them so accessing the underside of the worktops will be difficult. From what I can see the existing worktops are fitted to battens along the back edge with 'modesty' blocks (I think that is what they are called). Would it be the case that these have been used to secure the worktop and silicone placed in the joints (masons mitres) to hold the joints in place. I can't see any screws into the worktop from underneath. Is this enough or are connecting bolts absolutely necessary. If so, I guess I will have to cut through the tops of the units to give space for access to the underside.
Wish me luck ... ... ...!

 

[Scrit]

Would it be the case that these have been used to secure the worktop and silicone placed in the joints (masons mitres) to hold the joints in place.

You still need to use connecting bolts for the joints, there's no other way to make the joint close-up, so that will mean you need to use a hole saw to put access holes in the tops of your cabinets

I can't see any screws into the worktop from underneath.

I'd still add a few to keep everything anchored together

Scrit

 

[kevin_robson]

Thanks gary - its all slowly coming along.

As for the worktops although the top was open it wasn't possible to get to all three bolts when in situ. We simply slid it out a bit (only 1 ft in our case), tightened it all, and then slid it back into place. Not sure if this is practical in your case or not. I guess you'd have to be certain it was very well supported.

Good luck