Laying parquet flooring...

[regula1]

Hi,

Does anyone have any experience laying parquet flooring on a concrete floor which used to have vinyl tiles on it?

We bought the parquet tiles - nicoline, unsealed but pre-sanded which need to be glued down and the instructions say the floor has to be very flat and smooth (no surprises there )
We started taking up the old vinyl tiles and the old adhesive is turning out to be a real pain to remove. Currently using an old chisel to get it up..

Do we definately have to remove it? Is there an easy way to do it? or could we just put floor leveling compound over the lot? Do I need to damp proof the concrete floor? It's been there a while and doesn't look like it was original (it's in the lean-to of a 1900 vic. terrace house).
If anyone has any experiences - i'd love to hear from them. Right now I'm starting to think putting down laminate flooring would be a lot easier!

 

[JIM456]

Hi Reg,
You definitely should lift the old tiles, but there's no need to chisel up the old adhesive. Once the tiles are lifted just apply a thin coat of latex screed to create a clean, dust free surface for the parquet floor. The screed will also seal off the old adhesive to stop it reacting with the parquet adhesive.
There should be a dpm in place so there would be no need to put down any damp proof course unless there are obvious signs of damp.
You could lay a laminate floor directly onto the old tiles as laminate is a floating floor system which isn't actually glued to the subfloor, but for my money the parquet is a better floor
One word of warning when you come to laying the parquet...the adhesive is usually very runny and you can get into a real mess if it drips onto the tiles, or oozes up through the joints...its hard to clean off...so a bit of extra care is required.
Cheers.

 

[regula1]

Hi Jim456,

Right, i was wondering whether i'd get away with not putting down the latex at all as the floor seems reasonably level but I can probably manage that.
Is there a knack to putting down the leveling compound? - i've only done it once before (using febfloor? or something) and maybe i didn't make it runny enough - but it took an age to mix (perhaps because i was following the instructions too closely, i.e. a little at a time) and it was quite hard to smooth out on the floor.

How long should i wait for the self leveling compound to dry before laying the floor? The tiles instructions say don't lay on newly laid screed or screed that in newer than 6 months old. Do I really have to wait that long?

 

[JIM456]

Hi reg,
Those are some instructions
First I would definitely apply a latex screed. parquet flooring needs a good, solid subfloor to lay on...and also the performance of the adhesive may be affected by contact with the old adhesive (parquet/wood flooring is unstable, it can expand and contract...so the adhesive has to make a good, solid bond with the subfloor).
Latex screed is easy to work with, you normally get a 25kg bag of powder with a 5 ltr bottle of latex. A standard builders bucket will take half of that mixed...just pour half the bottle of latex in, then half the bag of powder, mixing as you add. In fact half & half is usually a bit thick and its easier to add a bit more latex to get a lighter mix...basically it should be of a creamy consistency...but not watery/runny.
If your floor is level then you can almost scrape it on with the trowel, applying just enough to cover the floor. Latex screed is not 'self-levelling' so once its almost dry, and you can walk on it with a pair of old trainers, just rub out the trowel marks away with the sole of your shoes (once its completely dry it will take a carborundum stone).
In a warm room the screed should be dry enought to walk on in 1-2 hours, and can be laid on in 24 hours...but with a wood floor I would be extra cautious and give it 48 hours to completely dry and cure before installing the parquet.
Good Luck.
Jim

 

[regula1]

Hi Jim456,
Thanks for the advice - I went and did it yesterday - I got a 25kg bag of Febflor Self-leveling compound on Sunday morning (in fact 2 bags but one was enough). This doesn't seem to require mixing with latex - is it already in it?
I think i might have made it too runny this time to compensate for the first time but it seems ok (gulp). Because the room was between the kitchen and the rest of the house and i didn't know how much i was going to need I mixed (4:1) 3 litres of water with about 12 (jugs/litres) of the stuff to just do half of the room - this turned out way too much and I'd only put PVA bonding on half the floor and had to throw the remainder out.
I think I made it too runny because an hour later it was still too soft to do the polishing troweling the instructions talked about.
I did the second half a bit later, after a cup of tea and a crumpet, making it slightly thicker (but still I don't thick enough) and then shut the door so the cat couldn't get in and went to bed.
This morning it seems ok - I have a long 6ft spirit level and that suggests that the floor still isn't perfectly level (2-3mm gap in the middle of the level - but it was like this before), but it's a lot smoother now.

Do you think I will get away with this or do I need to get latex screed as well?

Latex screed is not 'self-levelling' so once its almost dry, and you can walk on it with a pair of old trainers

I'm not sure what you mean by not self-leveling with regard to walking on it?

I probably wont put the floor down till next weekend now.

Many thanks.

 

[WoodYouLike]

Hi. Since you used water to mix the stuff beware of the rule of thumb: 2,5 cm screed/concrete takes 30 days to dry out enough to install wooden flooring safely.
It's best to be a bit more patient before you ruin all your work and wood.

 

[regula1]

it's only at a thickness of about 1.5mm though - will it still take that long to dry out?

 

[WoodYouLike]

That's indeed not that thick.
But now I'm starting to think about another 'problem' you might encounter.
If I read things correctly you are going to glue the parquet tiles on the new top layer. Wood is pretty strong. Your 'weakest' link will be the strongness of the screed layer. If that layer isn't bonded well enough the wood, while expanding, could pull this layer of and you end-up with part of the floor laying loose.

 

[regula1]

so I'm stuffed? This febflor stuff is basically concrete isn't it? I thought concrete chemically bonded itself with the layer below?

I'm now worried

 

[WoodYouLike]

Sorry, I'm not saying you're stuffed. I'm just pointing out something to be aware of.
We have encountered these problems ourselves when builders/customers leveled the underfloor and didn't take care of proper bonding. And guess who gets the blame if something does go wrong in the end??

 

[Ade1967]

Hello,

Don't know if this will help, but we're currently preparing to lay a load of reclaimed mahogany blocks and the floor they will be laid on is concrete with tiles on top. We tested lifting a few tiles and realised it was going to be a right pain to get the tile adhesive off the concrete so we were advised that the quickest and least messy solution was to lay a floor grade plywood base and then lay the block flooring on this. We'll be using Bitumen to lay the blocks as that is the adhesive that is still on the back of the original block flooring and will be fine to use to stick them down onto the chipboard base.

Hope this is of some help.

 

[Ade1967]

Sorry, 'that should be plywood base' in the last sentance.

 

[WoodYouLike]

Be aware that Bitumen is an oil product. If used as an adhesive (like you're planning) in the long run Bitumen turns very hard and brittle, which can then break very easily of (result: loose blocks).

Then there I was thinking that Bitumen wasn't allowed to be used indoors anymore, EU rules not yet introduced in the UK?

 

[regula1]

Thanks for the info. Gone ahead and done it all now (well most of it).
Firstly, I put down a layer of Febflor Self leveling compound down and let that dry for a week (I don't think it even needs that long but I wanted to be sure).
A floor compound I've been informed is very different from putting down a screed and doesn't require 6 months to dry. A screed is usually 2 inches thick whereas the floor compound is at most 5/6mm. Mine was only on average 2mm.
Then I put down adhesive and placed the parquet tiles on the floor. The floor isn't 100% level and sometimes the edges of the tiles protude upto .5mm worst case. Despite being presanded - i've been told you usually can't get away with not doing a final sand to smooth all this out.
Hopefully i can use a fine grade paper in a hand sander as I really dont want to fork out for a floor sander - they do my head in and hurt my back and are too expensive.
I post back when i've got to the varnishing bit.

How are you fixing the plywood to the floor?

 

[Ade1967]

WouldYouLike, we're forced to use a Bitumen based adhesive as the blocks still have Bitumen on from when they were first layed. This is the stuff we'll be using - http://www.birbek.com/mall/WoodFloorWarehouse/products/product-7631.stm - with any porous surface being ideal, e.g. concrete, wood. It's taken well over a month so far for me to clean the edges of the blocks (50 yards!) and I'd hate to think how long it would take to remove all the old Bitumen. I feel like throwing myself off a cliff just thinking about it!

regula1, the builders we're using will be laying the plywood base so I'm not sure. I'm assuming they'll screw or nail it down. I'm a bit dim when it comes to building methods but they seemed to think it was no big deal.