laying reclaimed parquet with underfloor heating. BONA S760?

[eldred1972]

Hi all
I'm planning to lay 55sq metres of reclaimed oak parquet onto a newly prepared screed floor. The floor has a hot water underfloor heating system which is working well, and the screed has dried out over 3 months (gradually turning up the heating). The parquet blocks have a fair amount of residual bitumen on them, which is very tricky to remove (infact, for this amount of flooring i'm not going to begin this impossible task).
I have read that it is possible to use a solvent based parquet adhesive even with bitumen on the blocks, for example Lecol 5500.
My local flooring specialist is reommending a product called BONA S760.
It is described as a solvent based adhesive dissolved in organic solvents (acetone and ethanol).
Does anyone have experience of this product, and am i likely to be successful?
Any thoughts welcome
Cheers

 

[WoodYouLike]

Lecol5500 is not suitable for underfloor heating anyway. Bona S760 seems to be but (from the extra information about the product):

Key points

* S760 is no t suitable for bitumen backed blocks, finger mosaic etc.

So, you'll have to remove the bitumen. And it is always recommended to do this anyway, especially when there is underfloor heating involved. Just imagine the smell and toxic vapours coming of your block when the heating is turned on.

 

[eldred1972]

Thanks for your post. I figured this would be the advice, i'm just struggling to get my head around removing 55sq m of tar from small wooden blocks.. what is the current best advice on removing this stuff? freeze the blocks and chip it off?

when these companies say 'not suitable for bitumen backed blocks' are they speaking from experience or just covering themselves if there is a problem in application?

historical posts on here have said that they have successfully used adhesives with bitumen backed blocks and underfloor heating, and i'm not certain that bitumen would really be releasing toxic vapours at the temps it reaches.. i wonder if anyone has real life experience of it?

hmmm. either a gamble or a long tedious job ahead me thinks...

 

[tall_tone]

Hi Eldred. Have to concur with WoodYouLike here that solvent based adhesives are not suitable for use any where Bitumen is present. The solvent tends to re-soften the bitumen so you get a very tenuous grip. Combine that with under floor heating and you have a problem waiting to happen.

Most companies will not say that their products are compatible with bitumen because the bitumen itself is often (especially on reclaimed blocks) brittle and dry. Thus you may get a grip to the bitumen but as soon as you put any sheer stress on it, the bitumen layer fails.

The only sure fire way of success is to remove nearly all the bitumen, then use a plasticizer and solvent free adhesive, possibly a flexible adhesive would be good with the under floor heating. Possible options (but check with the manufacturer) would be Sika or Uzin.

As a thought is there a wood yard who would plane down he backs of the blocks any where near?

Cheers

 

[will2000]

you need to fight fire with fire. lol
http://www.f-ball.co.uk/product_detail.asp?catID=wood&product=F21

 

[WoodYouLike]

Not good, especially not when there is UFH involved.

Use some elbow grease, clean the blocks and get the best result. No two ways about it.

 

[will2000]

you need to fight fire with fire. lol
http://www.f-ball.co.uk/product_detail.asp?catID=wood&product=F21[/QUOTE]

STYCCOBOND F21 is a high temperature grade bitumen/rubber emulsion adhesive
designed for application by dipping. It is non-flammable, protected against biodegradation
and is suitable for use over normal underfloor heating installations

 

[will2000]

were did you get the reclaimed blocks and how much did you pay for them there usally a pain in the backside to fit and sand. New parquet blocks are pretty cheap i wood save myself the bother and buy new ones.


I fit reclaimed blocks often and i can tell you that it takes 3 or 4 times longer to clean and fit them. plus you use twice as much glue. the customer probably pays more on the labour than the would buying new blocks.



We end up just flattening the bitumen off the back of the blocks and dipping it in the ballf21 adhesive and fitting them we have never had a problem they stick really well.

 

[WoodYouLike]

I stand corrected, hadn't seen that sentence. But doesn't mean I think it is a suitable product

Agree with you: either remove the bitumen properly or buy new parquet blocks to save a lot of hassle.

 

[mac391]

Just don't attempt it, you are wasting your time and money. There is far too much legal coverage over what a product will or will not do. Generally, reclaimed blocks, concrete and adhesive just don't mix. Has anyone mentioned or asked what type of screed you have? or wether it was power floated? It just will not work, not long term anyway, regardless what you use..
You could however put the parquet blocks through a thicknesser ( a carpentry machine) to remove the bitumen then throw the machine away. At least you would have 55m/2 of blocks to fit somewhere else or sell.

Hi all
I'm planning to lay 55sq metres of reclaimed oak parquet onto a newly prepared screed floor. The floor has a hot water underfloor heating system which is working well, and the screed has dried out over 3 months (gradually turning up the heating). The parquet blocks have a fair amount of residual bitumen on them, which is very tricky to remove (infact, for this amount of flooring i'm not going to begin this impossible task).
I have read that it is possible to use a solvent based parquet adhesive even with bitumen on the blocks, for example Lecol 5500.
My local flooring specialist is reommending a product called BONA S760.
It is described as a solvent based adhesive dissolved in organic solvents (acetone and ethanol).
Does anyone have experience of this product, and am i likely to be successful?
Any thoughts welcome
Cheers

 

[liand]

Hi Eldred,
I am looking to do the same as you in laying a reclaimed parquet floor over UFH.
Just wondering how you got on, have you laid it?
I have had different advice with regards to laying over UFH,
1 - dont do it as the blocks expand and contract unto 1.5mm per block which will cause unsightly gaps
2 - lay down and glue thick marine plywood base onto of concrete sub base before gluing blocks down
3 - put down a damp proof layer onto on concrete subfloor before gluing blocks (whether of not UFH).
i would be interested to hear how you got on and what you have learnt.

 

[AronSearle]

1 - dont do it as the blocks expand and contract unto 1.5mm per block which will cause unsightly gaps

The timber shrinks in winter and expands in summer, a floating floor will have the boards stuck together and will get around this, solid boards or blocks will pull away from each other (which they should be allowed to do), that gap between boards/blocks might only be 1/2mm rather than +1mm (can vary on timber, laying method etc), but it's largely unavoidable. I wouldn't call .5mm gaps unsightly personally.

Reclaimed timber may not be properly dried for UFH, so may shrink extra in winter.

2 - lay down and glue thick marine plywood base onto of concrete sub base before gluing blocks down

Typically only done if the concrete is not level.

3 - put down a damp proof layer onto on concrete subfloor before gluing blocks (whether of not UFH).

If the concrete is dry and has an intact DPM, why?

Just stick it straight down.

 

[robi4387]

55m2 of reclaimed wow that is a lot of chipping. I guess you've done it now. I took up 2 or 3 metres in my hall where some body had relaid after removing a fireplace and installing pipes to a radiator. They hadn't used blocks matching the original and it had all blown.
I never worked out what they had used but it didn't work between bitumen / concrete and bitumen backed blocks.
I cold chipped all the bitumen off the original block and used new for the border. I didn't use solvent or cleaner because it would penetrate and cause problems.
The 1950s slab probably didn't have a DPM under, but the damp hasn't come up through the old hot poured bitumen! So I painted patched, ground and filled areas with two generous coats liquid bitumen and gave plenty of time to dry.
I then stuck down old blocks in herringbone pattern. Two say later cut the perimeter and stuck new block for the border. Two days on I sanded. One year on it is still solid. But the floor is cold.
This was hard work and not cheap but it worked for me. Now I'm thinking of solutions for 50m2 I won't contemplate SH blocks. I like the look of the dipping liquid.
For this I'll be replacing a GB slab with PC B&B with 85mm water heater screed over 100mm of insulation. If I can't get the screed bang on flatness I'll use a levelling screed and when dry new engineered block dipped.
Comments welcome

 

[Happy999]

We have parquet floor in hall and living rooms the vast percentage is secure, but there are loose sections. On inspection there's old bitumen that's crumbled off.
I'm wondering if it's ok to just address the loose sections by cleaning and using adhesive.
Any thoughts?

 

[robi4387]

Sounds like the wood has moved a bit and the old bitumen is brittle and cracked. I would say that patch repairs will be quicker and easier if you can lift loose blocks without damaging them.
Number them and take a photo before lifting. Clean them up and glue back down in same positions.
I would use Gripfil if it were a small number. Hit and miss ribs and push down using a solid straight edge. Feel with your hands to check it is even and level.
That way I would avoid refinishing which is almost impossible to match.
Give it several days before walking on.
Hope this helps.