Leaking porch - can I ask your advice please

[hztm2008]

Hi, I would really appreciate some advice from builders. We had our porch updated three years ago. A local double glazing company came in, replaced the windows/front door and changed the flat roof to a tiled roof. A few months ago, when all the bad weather came, we started to get water running down the inside wall. I should say that this wall always takes a battering as we are close to the sea.

We called the company back under the 10 year guarantee and the surveyor told us that the problem was due to them leaving the old lead water trays in place. He showed us the old tray sticking out each side of the new roof and said that this should have been removed when the new roof was installed. He explained that this was running right across the inside wall and he showed us the bricks all wet along the line. He said he would report back to the company.

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The company have now come back and said that new lead trays need to be installed above the roof to solve the problem and that this would normally cost £800 but they will do it for £500. I pointed out that they quoted for a porch (not a porch that leaks) and that we would like the problem corrected. They said that there is no legal obligation to fit these trays unless we had asked for them when they quoted for the work? Surely they quoted for a water tight porch.

I would really appreciated some advice - is it normal practice to leave the old lead tray in place or should this have been removed. Should we be expected to pay for this extra work. We are not bothered what they actually do, we just want a porch fit for purpose. Thank you so much for any advice.

 

[conny]

My answer to them would be that;

I am a, (insert your trade, i.e. accountant, train driver etc), not a builder. Therefore I am not aware of what is needed to carry out this job which is why I employed you to carry it out in a professional manner. It would appear from the surveyors report that you have not done so and therefore you are now obliged to correct the fault at your expense. If you disagree with this I shall seek legal representation to either;

a/ Enforce you to adhere to your contractual warranty at your expense

Or

b/ Seek a court order to have the work done by another company, again at your expense.

Please notify me within 14 days what action you intend to take to remedy this fault.

 

[Alastairreid]

Its not so much they didnt remove the old cavity trays! which would be unnecessary anyway! more they didnt install new cavity trays above the new apron...

They should have advised you to install new trays but i doubt you have any recourse on them for not fitting them.

 

[hztm2008]

Its not so much they didnt remove the old cavity trays! which would be unnecessary anyway! more they didnt install new cavity trays above the new apron...

They should have advised you to install new trays but i doubt you have any recourse on them for not fitting them.

Thanks for the info. So are you saying that it is unreasonable for us to ask them to fix this against the 10 year warranty - I guess I just thought that water leaking in would be one of the main things covered? I am not demanding they fit new trays (they suggested that), I don't really care what they do, I just feel that they should fix whatever is causing the problem.

 

[conny]

Yes they should fix the leak, by whatever means they deem necessary, but they are responsible for the cost. If the old trays were serviceable they should have used them if they were not they should have installed new ones.

 

[Alastairreid]

The structure they built is not leaking! the water is coming through the cavity from above and manifesting itself in your porch.

They should with hindsight have included new trays in the price..its not always necessary to fit cavity trays , it depends on exposure. elevation etc.

I doubt they will budge on this one, and going legal i doubt you would have a case.

Thomsons waterseal applied above the porch will be a temp fix,

 

[hztm2008]

The structure they built is not leaking! the water is coming through the cavity from above and manifesting itself in your porch.

They should with hindsight have included new trays in the price..its not always necessary to fit cavity trays , it depends on exposure. elevation etc.

I doubt they will budge on this one, and going legal i doubt you would have a case.

Thomsons waterseal applied above the porch will be a temp fix,

Thank you for coming back - you make a good point that I had not considered - I guess the wall would not really be covered under the warranty. That being said, they were aware that the original trays were there and that they would cause a problem - or maybe it is normal to leave them in like this but seal them off or something?

Maybe I do not have a case after all - beginning to think I am going to have to pay. Thanks again for the info

 

[ban-all-sheds]

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[ban-all-sheds]

Anyway - back to the plot - IANAL, but surely if you employ someone to carry out building work, and by omission or commission they introduce a fault which was not there before, they must be liable?

The structure they built is not leaking! the water is coming through the cavity from above and manifesting itself in your porch.

Wouldn't the OP have noticed this happening before he had the porch altered?

 

[ree]

The first requirement of a structure is to keep unwanted water out.
Anyone who provides entry for unwanted water is liable under what Parts L and M call:
"Work to carried out to approved standards". and "Work to be carried out in a workmanlike manner"

Given that the wall "always takes a battering because we are close to the sea" - then surely the builder would be aware of what approved standard was required?

No matter the source of the water - before it was not entering the building, and now it is.
It was perhaps entering the cavity before, we dont really know if it was, or if the builder later introduced it into the cavity.
Most cavities have minor weeping periods on the outer skin
Before, if present, it was apparently passing through the weeps to discharge on the flat roof. ie. the original cav trays worked.

Presumably, no building Inspector was involved because, although its not always a requirement, most BI's would insist on cav trays for your situation.

I will quote from a building department's instruction:
"Cavity Trays are the only permanent solution to penetrating dampness where a cavity wall has been built against".
I apologise for not giving an exact reference, i've lost it.

If a cav tray is existing it implies that it was originally required - no one working to "approved standards" would have by-passed such a requirement.

If you go small claims court then first you should pay an independent damp surveyor in London to inspect and report (for instance, i notice a well qualified, London based, Ralph Burkinshaw on google).

Then, clutching your independent report, go pay a lawyer for a brief heads up.

Small claims can regain all professional fees.

I have no doubts at all - that you would win. But dealing with all this and then getting your money are something else.

As for the water seal business, i kind of doubt that it would do much good, given that the source of water entry is unknown - maybe its the window frame or maybe the eaves?
Plus someone would have to go up there, perhaps clamber about on a disputed new roof, and apply another expense for no particular reason.

 

[Alastairreid]

Wouldn't the OP have noticed this happening before he had the porch altered?

The weeps would have been over the flat roof which i assume has now been removed.

 

[Alastairreid]

Bottom line is you need to get trays installed! Your builder isnt going to do it under warranty.

Taking them to court will be time consuming and expensive with no guarantee of success.