LED Halogen Equivalents

[EastBelfastian]

I want to replace x6 MR16 35 watt halogen lights with x6 GU10 LEDS

At the moment I need to work out which LED bulbs to purchase.
The bulbs in place at the moment are
35 watt MR16 halogens
35 degree beam angle
427 lumens (or something like that but it is above 400 according to the box the bulbs came in)

What confuses me is how a 50 watt LED equivalent apparently emits less light (usually around 345 lumens) than a 35 watt halogen. Anyone know why this is?

 

[AndyPRK]

MR16 are 12v so have a transformer/power supply in the floor above. You will need to be able to access this, to remove it, if you want to convert to GU10.

Maybe time for a re think!

 

[EFLImpudence]

MR16 are 12v

Not always. They can be 240V.

Although it is true that people wrongly call the 12V ones 'MR16' to distinguish them from the 240V MR16 ones.

 

[EastBelfastian]

Well either way it doesn't answer my question.

I can access the transformer to disconnect it and pull it out by pulling the connection to the hole in the ceiling and disconnecting it , no? That is what I did in my own house.

 

[EFLImpudence]

What confuses me is how a 50 watt LED equivalent apparently emits less light (usually around 345 lumens) than a 35 watt halogen. Anyone know why this is?

Obviously because it is NOT equivalent - as you have discovered.

The manufacturer or seller lied.

 

[ericmark]

As said GU10 are MR16 lamps, MR16 refers to the reflector size and type, and has nothing to do with voltage or how connected, the 2 pin type are G5.3.

I have found the intensity is linked to size, so a 2" does not light as well as 5" but is better than 1" if the lumen is the same, so at around 3.5 watt the LED has cooling problems so the size is reduced, so even if a 7.5 watt should give same lumen as a 50 watt tungsten they don't and often you need more LED lights to tungsten to get same result.

I had a single 58 watt fluorescent fitting in kitchen, son swapped it for 9 GU10 MR16 lamps and basic same watts, same lumen, and same life, just 4 times the cost or more. OK they do look better, but do exactly the same job.

Bathroom I removed the 4 x 50 watt MR16 G5.3 and replaced with 4 LED G5.3 just a simple replacement as running off a toroidal transformer, both were 12 volt AC at 50 Hz, where the problem lies is where an electronic transformer is used which is not 50 Hz output and needs to supply a minimum which is above what the LED uses.

Moving from 12 to 230 volt depends on the wiring, even if the earth is not used, you must run an earth to the fitting, and so often with 12 volt there is no earth, so to convert to 230 volt means a rewire. Since 1966 all light fittings other than the pendent it's self if class II must have an earth run to them.

 

[EastBelfastian]

Obviously because it is NOT equivalent - as you have discovered.

The manufacturer or seller lied.

Err the halogens from Sainsburys are 35 watt. It states that on the box and also states they emit 427 lumens. If you google 35 watt halogen sainsburys you will find this. So when I am shopping for LEDs and look for 35 watt 'equivalents' they come no where near close to 427 lumens nor do the 50 watt equivalents.

From a learning perspective what I would like to find out is why this is. Can someone enlighten me?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Err the halogens from Sainsburys are 35 watt. It states that on the box and also states they emit 427 lumens. If you google 35 watt halogen sainsburys you will find this. So when I am shopping for LEDs and look for 35 watt 'equivalents' they come no where near close to 427 lumens nor do the 50 watt equivalents.

Then, if you are correct, it is not true. People lie.
What Wattage and lumens are the LED ones?

From a learning perspective what I would like to find out is why this is. Can someone enlighten me?

Yes, don't believe everything in sales promotion.

 

[EFLImpudence]

They also lied by calling them 'MR' because LEDs don't have a Mutifaceted Reflector.

 

[EastBelfastian]

Then, if you are correct, it is not true. People lie.
What Wattage and lumens are the LED ones?.

5 watt 345 lumens for these ones:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-gu10-led-light-bulb-345lm-5w-10-pack/1402v

These ones are 3.8 watt and 345 lumens somehow

https://www.screwfix.com/p/philips-gu10-led-light-bulb-345lm-3-8w-6-pack/250fh

And this non-dimmable one is 4.6watt and 345 lumens

https://www.screwfix.com/p/philips-gu10-led-light-bulb-345lm-4-6w-6-pack/4652p

 

[EFLImpudence]

Well, there you go. 345 is less than 427 - plus they don't have a reflector.

 

[JohnD]

You're much better off buying lighting according to the lumens number, than by some inaccurate or misleading wattage.

Efficiencies are creeping up over time (and prices sinking)

Dimmable are generally less efficient, BTW.

 

[EastBelfastian]

What about these ones?

https://www.screwfix.com/p/sylvania...ck/3667t#product_additional_details_container

I know they aren't the right amount of lumens, but, on the topic of reflectors, how do you know if it has one or does not? It doesn't say it has a reflector on Screwfix but on this other site it does say it has a reflector... so confusing. The rest of the specs are the same.

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/led-reflector-lamps/1234884/

 

[JohnW2]

I know they aren't the right amount of lumens, but, on the topic of reflectors, how do you know if it has one or does not? It doesn't say it has a reflector on Screwfix but on this other site it does say it has a reflector... so confusing.

LED lamps/bulbs do not have reflectors (because they don't need them).

As has been said, calling an LED "MR<anything>" is just plain wrong, since LEDs don't have "multifaceted reflectors" (which is what "MR" means).

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

LED lamps/bulbs do not have reflectors (because they don't need them).

As has been said, calling an LED "MR<anything>" is just plain wrong, since LEDs don't have "multifaceted reflectors" (which is what "MR" means).

Kind Regards, John

I bet you call it a PC compatible as PC is a trade make of IBM? So it is a MR16 compatible as is this

as it is 16 * ⅛" across, a kick back from cathode ray tubes.