LED Light switch on problem

[CML]

I recently installed two LED lights to a garden building using a timer switch for on/off. Unfortunately one / both often don't come on using the timer. I changed the timer to a switch and found even the switch is intermittent on initial switch on. I've tried standard light fittings which work fine with timer / switch.
Is it something unique to LED's? Or the fittings / LED lights? The LEDS / fittings are from Ikea.
Any help would be really appreciated. many thanks CML

 

[ericmark]

Is the switch/timer before the driver/electronic transformer?

Pure guess but if the switch is after a switch mode power supply then likely the supply has closed its self down on under current.

 

[CML]

Is the switch/timer before the driver/electronic transformer?

Pure guess but if the switch is after a switch mode power supply then likely the supply has closed its self down on under current.

Thanks for the feedback.
The LED fittings are mains supply. Not sure if the fittings have anything built in, they don't appear to have. Thanks CML.

 

[ericmark]

An white LED is around 3 volt DC so there has to be some control. It could be a simple diode and resistor in the main we control current rather than voltage for a LED. However most controllers use switch mode regulation, this means it varies the on and off time (called mark/space) to regulate the current. There is a limit on the on and off time so with overload or underload the electronics will normally close down i.e. fail safe.

I would still guess that something is causing the electronics to close down. It could be a faulty LED or a bad connection but for it to be intermittent it sounds like a switch mode power supply going into auto shut down. This some times happens when the wrong size unit is used for example using LED's from a power supply designed to power quartz lamps.

If you have not made any errors in wiring then it's a case of return to Ikea. I am not a great lover of Ikea electrics although their rechargeable AA and AAA batteries are listed as best value for money. But I have had bulbs which did not have the internal fuse so when they failed they welded themselves to the bulb holder and we see so often where ceiling lamps don't have provision for the permanent live found in most British ceiling roses. So with such a poor track record it would not surprise me to find the lights are faulty.

 

[CML]

An white LED is around 3 volt DC so there has to be some control. It could be a simple diode and resistor in the main we control current rather than voltage for a LED. However most controllers use switch mode regulation, this means it varies the on and off time (called mark/space) to regulate the current. There is a limit on the on and off time so with overload or underload the electronics will normally close down i.e. fail safe.

I would still guess that something is causing the electronics to close down. It could be a faulty LED or a bad connection but for it to be intermittent it sounds like a switch mode power supply going into auto shut down. This some times happens when the wrong size unit is used for example using LED's from a power supply designed to power quartz lamps.

If you have not made any errors in wiring then it's a case of return to Ikea. I am not a great lover of Ikea electrics although their rechargeable AA and AAA batteries are listed as best value for money. But I have had bulbs which did not have the internal fuse so when they failed they welded themselves to the bulb holder and we see so often where ceiling lamps don't have provision for the permanent live found in most British ceiling roses. So with such a poor track record it would not surprise me to find the lights are faulty.

Many thanks again. As the standard fittings work fine I would like to think it was the Ikea fittings. I will look into replacement and see if that sorts out the problem. Maybe I should look at another supplier! Thanks again.

 

[Taylortwocities]

...

 

[JohnW2]

The LED fittings are mains supply. Not sure if the fittings have anything built in, they don't appear to have.

Do you know whether the actual lamps/bulbs in the fittings are mains voltage (~230V) or extra low voltage (usually 12V) (from what you say, I suspect the former)? The voltage should be marked on the bulbs/lamps somewhere.

Kind Regards, John

 

[CML]

The LED fittings are mains supply. Not sure if the fittings have anything built in, they don't appear to have.

Do you know whether the actual lamps/bulbs in the fittings are mains voltage (~230V) or extra low voltage (usually 12V) (from what you say, I suspect the former)? The voltage should be marked on the bulbs/lamps somewhere.

Kind Regards, John

Hi John, thanks for your feedback. The lamps are 220~240v 50/60Hz 6.3W Ikea LED GX53. Mounted in a Haggum recessed spotlight. I'll try exchanging them (lamps & fittings). Just a bit of a hike to the shop.

 

[Iggifer]

does the timer switch have a minimum loading printed on it? some do, and it may be that with LEDs you're below that, and standard fittings above it.

I guess it may be around the 100W mark

 

[JohnW2]

Hi John, thanks for your feedback. The lamps are 220~240v 50/60Hz 6.3W Ikea LED GX53. Mounted in a Haggum recessed spotlight.

That's what I rather assumed/suspected - I asked because eric seemed to be assuming that they were 'extra low voltage' (12V or whatever) with an external driver (in fitting or, more likely, separate).

I'll try exchanging them (lamps & fittings). Just a bit of a hike to the shop.

I would think it's extremely unlikely that the fittings are at fault, particularly since you're having problems with both of them. It's also pretty bad luck if you've got too duff lamps, but that seems the most likely explanation, given that other light fittings/lamps work OK with the same supply/switch/timer. I presume that you've checked the connections to the new fittings (e.g. ensured that terminal screws are properly tightened onto the copper of wires, not the insulation)?

It could, of course, be that there was a 'bad batch' of lamps. In your position, I'd therefore want to see any replacements they gave me working in the shop before I took them away, particularly if it were a 'hike' away!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

does the timer switch have a minimum loading printed on it? some do, and it may be that with LEDs you're below that, and standard fittings above it. ...

Ah, that's a good point - I wasn't thinking of 'fancy/new-fangled timers' - I've only ever used ones with a 'proper supply' and a relay output

CML: can you identify this timer for us?

Kind Regards, John

 

[CML]

does the timer switch have a minimum loading printed on it? some do, and it may be that with LEDs you're below that, and standard fittings above it. ...

Ah, that's a good point - I wasn't thinking of 'fancy/new-fangled timers' - I've only ever used ones with a 'proper supply' and a relay output

CML: can you identify this timer for us?

Kind Regards, John

Hi, thanks again for the replies. regarding the timer, it's just a standard dial / peg unit. I don't think it's the timer as I put the lights on a standard switch and it did the same. (Intermittent on/off lamps).
What I would say is that when switching the lights on they / one might initially not come on but second or third flick of the switch they are always on. maybe a dodgy contact?

 

[JohnW2]

Hi, thanks again for the replies. regarding the timer, it's just a standard dial / peg unit. I don't think it's the timer as I put the lights on a standard switch and it did the same. (Intermittent on/off lamps).

Ah - good old-fashioned one like I'm used to, then ! That wouldn't be the problem, as you have confirmed.

What I would say is that when switching the lights on they / one might initially not come on but second or third flick of the switch they are always on. maybe a dodgy contact?

Not impossible, I suppose, but if there were dodgy contact between lamp and holder, one probably wouldn't expect it to vary from moment to moment. I take it you've tried 'waggling' the lamps?!

Kind Regards, John

 

[CML]

Hi, thanks again for the replies. regarding the timer, it's just a standard dial / peg unit. I don't think it's the timer as I put the lights on a standard switch and it did the same. (Intermittent on/off lamps).

Ah - good old-fashioned one like I'm used to, then ! That wouldn't be the problem, as you have confirmed.

What I would say is that when switching the lights on they / one might initially not come on but second or third flick of the switch they are always on. maybe a dodgy contact?

Not impossible, I suppose, but if there were dodgy contact between lamp and holder, one probably wouldn't expect it to vary from moment to moment. I take it you've tried 'waggling' the lamps?!

Kind Regards, John

Yes thanks. They seem to lock into position (Pin type).

 

[JohnW2]

Yes thanks. They seem to lock into position (Pin type).

Yes, I realise that - but it doesn't preclude a good waggle, even when they seem to be 'locked'

Kind Regards, John