LED Lights distance to beams

[Johan2218]

Hi,

Installing new spotlights but right next to beams. Lots of room above and all around other than the side effectively on/next to the beam. Reasonable room for air circulation too.

Question is one of heat and safety. All I can see/read is that as are not standard voltage / halogen lamps which give off a lot of heat, that I shouldn't worry about LED heat as is minimal. However cannot see anything definitive but maybe that's because it's not a problem/issue.

The actual lamp fitting/case instructions provided minimum clearances for use with normal halogen but nothing mentioned regarding LED.

Is it a question of if they fit it's okay?

Thanks.

 

[motorbiking]

these will be fine
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_I...ghting_Downlights_Index/Aurora_DE8/index.html

Definitely install a dimmer (LED compatible).
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/VLJQP401W.html

 

[Johan2218]

Thanks.
Are you saying that they must be IP65 fire rated?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

The actual lamp fitting/case instructions provided minimum clearances for use with normal halogen but nothing mentioned regarding LED.

Is it a question of if they fit it's okay?

The halgen lamps themselves are fairy robust so far as suffering themselves from the heat they create, but things close to them can suffer. LED's are the exact opposite, they can suffer and have a shortened life, if they get too hot. They don't like tightly enclosed, poorly ventilated fittings at all. The cooler they run, the better.

 

[motorbiking]

Thanks.
Are you saying that they must be IP65 fire rated?

If you are making a build compliant, any light that breaches the plasterboard must either be fire rated or have a hood. Might as well do it right for the extra cost.

 

[ericmark]

What do you mean by beams? I tried to light a house like that and it was a nightmare. Wall lights seemed to work well beams too low for pendent, and if recessed then beams stopped light.

With a flat ceiling the main method is to reflect light from the ceiling giving a better spread, recessed lighting takes a lot of doing as so many lights required, I remember instructions for shop fitting no more than 18 inches between lights, they had no heating and massive air conditioning units to remove the heat.

The LED has removed the problem with heat removal, but son removed the fluorescent in my old house kitchen, I had a 24 watt LED replacement for fluorescent tubes which lit the area well he did this 16 x recessed LED lamps GU10's double the amount of power used lighting no better, be he thinks it looks better, I do not think the place for a bike is on ceiling for decoration either.

As to heat above that ceiling is a tiled roof, so no need for fire hoods and the like, but it does depend what is above the lights.

I use GU10 pods, I find being able to direct the light to where I want helps, but recessed the angle is limited. I do think lighting can enhance the room, but think if your going to install a planetarium as least arrange lights as great bear.

 

[Notch7]

Hi,

Installing new spotlights but right next to beams. Lots of room above and all around other than the side effectively on/next to the beam. Reasonable room for air circulation too.

Question is one of heat and safety. All I can see/read is that as are not standard voltage / halogen lamps which give off a lot of heat, that I shouldn't worry about LED heat as is minimal. However cannot see anything definitive but maybe that's because it's not a problem/issue.

The actual lamp fitting/case instructions provided minimum clearances for use with normal halogen but nothing mentioned regarding LED.

Is it a question of if they fit it's okay?

Thanks.

the installation instructions should provide that information

LED downlighters do get warm

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

What do you mean by beams? View attachment 253356
I use GU10 pods, I find being able to direct the light to where I want helps, but recessed the angle is limited. I do think lighting can enhance the room, but think if your going to install a planetarium as least arrange lights as great bear.

Much depends on whether the lighting is for effect, or for practical use. Kitchens need to have a practical lighting scheme. Pre-the 8's our kitchen, which is quite large - 3 times as long as it is wide, had a very practical 6 foot florescent fitting and was well, practical. In the 80's that became a pair of ceiling downlighters, tungsten floods. Not very practical all, I eventually replaced those with LED floods, which were even worse and supplemented those with a 6' florescent on top of a run of cupboards, bouncing light from the white ceiling which worked rather well - whilst I considered what to do next. I had in mind to convert to multiple LED downlighters, maybe next time I could disturb the bedroom above the kitchen.

A couple of years ago I spotted some 8w fittings, with built in LED's, like a globular flying saucer shape and cheap enough to buy even if I didn't make use of them. They just click into a base bracket, so easy to swap if they fail, so I bought a pair to test. By quite a margin they are a much better and brighter light than we have used before. Even turning on the 6' on top of the run of units, hardly makes much difference to the lighting level. They fitted quite neatly over the two original holes in the ceiling, via the addition of two home made plastic blanks. They proved so good, I bough an extra pair to keep as spares should they fail.

 

[Taylortwocities]

If you are making a build compliant, any light that breaches the plasterboard must either be fire rated or have a hood. Might as well do it right for the extra cost.

Not correct. A fire rated fitting is only required if the surface you are breaching is a FIRE BARRIER. A single plasterboard ceiling is not designated as a fire barrier.
You will not find a fire barrier in a regular house unless it is the ceiling of an integrated garage. Ceilings etc of flats etc are a different matter as each apartment is (should be) a separate fire compartment.

 

[ericmark]

@Harry Bloomfield has raised a good point, 16/8th of an inch, or 2 inches seems name MR16 came from cathode ray tube days, but it is rather small. I have looked at 2D fittings in the days of fluorescent, fitted on in mothers kitchen as could not find a class II fluorescent tube fitting. The GX53 seemed a good compromise still renewable units, do not like integral LED's, and at 5 inches just that little bit bigger, so better spread, and surface mount so no large holes in ceiling, but they don't seem to have caught on, I wonder why?

I did not want to run new cables in ceiling space, so have considered a number of methods, including lighting track, this system means in essence cables are surface, but look better, it also means the lights can be aimed where wanted, and no problems passing beams.

I have used under counter lighting, but not well planned, replaced as it failed, so one side plain white light, other side colour changing zigbee 2 meter strip gives a really good light, Lidi best, but really would have been better if both sides of cooker had been the same, what ever was used. So the cooker hood light helps.

 

[Johan2218]

Thanks to everyone so far.
By beams I mean the joists in the floor above. The lights themselves are for the entrance and corridor of a standard ground floor 2 storey house.

To centre them I would hit the beam/joists above but by moving slightly over could get away with the aesthetic positioning but they literally come up in the ceiling above right next to the joists... just a mm or so away. There are no other combustible materials around their positions.

Some fittings being sold quote a 50mm gap all around them but that seems to relate to their use with halogen lamps. I will be using LED and there's nothing mentioned for them when referring to those ones have looked at.
That includes IP65 (including the totally sealed/casings types) as well as the basic "open" non IP65 ones.
I had originally thought the open ones would be better as they allow air around them... whilst IP65 will contain any heat within their casings, if they are supplied as such.

If course if these were to be halogen I wouldn't even consider this, as far too close...but for LED as they give out minimal heat I am asking if they fit, is it okay for them to be so close please?

Thanks.

 

[motorbiking]

Most of the LED manufacturers require a gap too. I guess they aren’t the ones trying to fit them in.

 

[SUNRAY]

@Harry Bloomfield has raised a good point, 16/8th of an inch, or 2 inches seems name MR16 came from cathode ray tube days, but it is rather small.

The measurement of ⅛ths is correct and used extensively in bulbs - PAR16, 36, 38, 56 & 64 are regulars with me. PAR = Parabolic Aluminiumised Reflector, MR = Metal Reflector, more recently Metalised Reflector and if the reflector is a series of flats sometimes referred to as Dichroic. Howeve Dichroic tend to be measured in mm, ie MR16 = Dichroic51.

I've never been aware of any tie up to CRT's, AFAIA just measured in inches (And mm I assume). I remember vidicon tubes having 'numerical sizes' rather than dimensions.