Lighting Question

[Tabitha]

Hope you guys can help answer these questions please .

1. I would like downlighters in my new kitchen. My electrician has said that he will fit 'Fire Regulation' ones. What does this mean? Does he mean that he will fit firehoods on them?

2. There are a few different downlighters i.e. low voltage, LED etc. Which would you recommend for safety (fire) and a good light?

Thanks, your help and expertise is appreciated.

 

[sparkyspike]

I would recommend 12v (extra low voltage) 50W downlights in the kitchen because they are nice and bright. 240v ones (GU10s) are cheap to buy but give a softer light. If you want to save money on fuel bills, you can fit low energy lamps. They are more expensive to buy and don't give a crisp light like normal 12v ones, but are cheaper to run.

Why is the electrician specifying fire regulation ones? Is it his preference or a regulation? They are a few quid more than normal ones. They normally come with fire-stopping rings fitted, but you can get hoods to fit normal downlighters.

 

[skenk]

Sorry to hijack but I have been wondering just what the difference between 12v and 230v downlights are? Your point about softer light from 240v is interesting, care to elaborate? (genuinely interested) Also I can see the reason for using ELV in bathrooms etc. for a bit of additional safety but apart from that, are there any other advantages of using ELV over GU10's? GU10's are quicker to wire (no transformers) but I can't help thinking 12v has advantages too. Heat?? lamp lifetime??

To the OP, fire rated should be used to minimise the spread of fire, so if the ceiling is getting holes cut in it then they should probably be used but if it is a suspended (false) ceiling then it won't be so important - the original ceiling should be intact. Fire rated should only cost a few pounds more per fitting and should be no easier or more difficult to install. Normal fittings with 'hoods will provide a fire rating or now you can just get fire rated fittings that don't require additional hoods. As far as i'm aware LED's aren't yet bright or reliable enough for most applications although i stand to be corrected. Don't know about low energy downlights.

 

[GaryMo]

To the OP, fire rated should be used to minimise the spread of fire, so if the ceiling is getting holes cut in it then they should probably be used but if it is a suspended (false) ceiling then it won't be so important - the original ceiling should be intact.

Depending on location.

 

[SparkyNinja]

Your existing ceiling currently has a resistivity to fire. When you cut holes for downlights in the ceiling, this resistivity is largely compromised. Fire rated lights re-introduce this resistivity, the fittings will have all this info on them.

Fire hoods are an ok substitue but from my experience, they are awkward to install. I've had to dish out quite a few bo**ockings where my guys just site it over the fitting.

I try to install fire rated lights more than hoods. I can get a GU10 White 70mm fire rated fitting for NET price of £6.45 including lamp at my local wholesaler, needless to say I think the guy there regretted giving me that price.

As GaryMo said though, the location is a factor too.

All together now... resistivity

 

[Tabitha]

Sparkyspike, no idea why he has a preference for fire regulation downlighters. TBH I didn’t know about the ones with fire stopping rings and I’v eno idea which ones he intends to use. We have only approached him to see if he is free to do the job at the moment, we haven’t got around to actually choosing what we want, hence my question about what lights are best. ATM we have a central light with 4 spots and it is inadaquate, casts terrible shadows on worktops, so I thought that downlighters might be better if I got the correct ones….thanks.

Skenk, we live in a bungalow so the lights will be cut into an ordinary ceiling with loft directly above, so I am very wary about the heat these things produce. Especially as our bungalow is over 40years old and has artexed hardboard ceilings rather than plasterboard.

The electrician who is doing the job did our rewiring for us and is reasonably priced. He has quoted us roughly £10 per downlighter to supply and fit, of course I suppose that depends on what quality and finish we want.

You have all been brilliant with your info…..much appreciated guys, if you can think of anything else I would be very interested to know

 

[sparkyspike]

Sounds like your electrician is very reasonably priced. If he's fitting fire-rated fittings for that price then you may as well have them fitted. You may have to redecorate your ceiling a bit as downlights don't sit flat onto Artex very well. It just remains what kind of lamp you want to use: ELV lamps which are brightest, LV lamps which are less bright but cheaper (no transformers required) or low-energy lamps if you are worried about fuel bills or CO2, but don't give off a great light (although some people like them). Personally I would go for ELV 12v/50W in a kitchen, but that's just my preference.

 

[Cremeegg]

12v downlights need transformers which can be troublesome unless you pay good money for some decent ones.

240v downlights no transformers but IMHO shorter lamp life.

LED lights are getting there. Fitted some with 3W LED's at about 450mm centres for client in kitchen and bathroom - client very happy. You may not like the light colour though but running costs are dead cheap although lamps are expensive (£14?) to buy in first place they will last 50,000 hours or so - 25 - 30 years!

CFL lamps good general light spread but still tend to flicker on start up and gradually increase in brightness as they warm up.

Personally - 12v then 240v then LED then CFL

 

[Pensdown]

The electrician who is doing the job did our rewiring for us and is reasonably priced. He has quoted us roughly £10 per downlighter to supply and fit, of course I suppose that depends on what quality and finish we want.
D

Your electrician will need to self certify the works. To save yourself a lot of grief please make sure he or is company is listed here.

http://www.competentperson.co.uk/search.asp

 

[Tabitha]

Thanks for the opinions guys.
Have asked another (more able) electrician for a price now. Told him that we preferred the ELV ones and he said that the tranformers always go on those. Is this correct and will we have to get an electrician everytime we need a new one?

 

[GaryMo]

If he uses good quality transformers which are sited away from any thermal insulation then you shouldn't have many problems.
If a transformer does fail then it's not as simple as changing a lamp (not difficult though).