Liniar Windows

[Gazman16]

The spacer bar is meant to be below the rubber and this coverage gives the unit seal some protection from the sun, to raise the spacer would entail packing the unit higher up, it would solve your immediate issue in that you wouldn't see the algae but MAY compromise the units lifespan, also aesthetically the unit wouldn't be central in the frame, to a trained eye it would jump out, to yours perhaps not so much, if you can live the above then its a case of popping the beads off and slipping in another 5mm packer in on top of the one the glass should already be sitting on, that's a simple diy job or you could get the installer to pop back and adjust the units for you

All this is assuming you only have the algae along the bottom where the water sits, Gazman might be able to advise further as her installs linear amongst others, maybe he's seen this before........or maybe hasn't?

Its not a problem that I have ever noticed or that any of my customers have brought to my attention.
I have 3 makes of windows/doors in my house (AGS 25 years old, Eurocell 8 years old and Coastal 15 years old) They all have there little niggles in these areas (wonky spacer bars) and some dirt but I do admit the dirt is not as bad as the OP's.
I will start keeping an eye out when I go back to jobs to see if any of mine suffer with the same issue. I should be going to a dirty old farm house in a week or 2 to do an extra door. I will take a look at some of the older windows then.

 

[gasmaneddie]

Well heard from Liniar again recently and they find it totally acceptable to have that amount of dirt ( thanks Gazman 16 for acknowledging it is quite bad)
Anyway moving on what I am trying to find out is the procedure for determining the size of the glass as I have mentioned before I feel that if the spacer bar was 10mm shorter width and length you wouldn't be able to see the dirt as spacer bar would be almost level with the sill hope that makes sense. I am aware you need to toe and heal openers.
I have seen loads of windows like that and they look neat and no dirt (if there is you can't see it)

 

[Gazman16]

It varies a surprising amount from factory to factory, Its all computer calculated nowadays.
The way yours are sized are (as someone else mentioned here) well sized for the longevity of the units and recommended practice.

I will check some of my older Liniar jobs as and when I go back to them for extra bits and let you know if I see anything similar or not.

 

[ronniecabers]

I know Anglian windows used to make their sealed units ' sight line ' , that is that the inside face of the spacer bar ( the bit you see ) was level with the rubber gasket all the way round.

 

[crank39]

As a general rule of thumb it's where the joint line is where the glazing beads touch the frame, when measuring for say a replacement unit you measure from this joint to the other and deduct 10mm......width and height, once fitted and on 5mm packers along the bottom this gives a 5mm gap all round, referring back to my other post where I said you can double up on the bottom packer, not right but will bring the spacer car up to the level you want to cover that algae.

Double glazing manufacturer's use window software that you input the overall frame size into it then what your profile style or thicknesses you want ie thin, medium or heavy outer frame and the software automatically knows the internal sizes for the glass, depending on their settings you may get slightly different sizes from measuring the way I explained above +/- 5mm

 

[gasmaneddie]

Thanks for your replies so far, I would just like to emphasise that is not just algae but a bead of debris some 1 or 2 mm thick, will get some better pics, also like to say that when Liniar Thechnical director came to look he noted that the gasket was sticky, thought it may have been caused by the adhesive from the handling tape protecting the sealed unit edges seeping on to the gasket (said it is normal practice to leave on but Pilkington recommend removing ours not them,) this was cleaned off the rubber gasket with solvent, glass was cleaned and put back but grime reappeared in a couple of weeks (no extreme weather or building work in the vicinity, not on main road, evergreen hedge out front)
Probably need to work on my Grammar

 

[Gazman16]

I have just been out to a job to change some glass units (that I ordered incorrectly. Oops!).
I fitted them about 2 months ago and the place is a very messy building site. The house has been gutted, with extensions and a loft conversion going on.
Here are some pics I just took.

Although its only been 2 months (so no time for algae to form) you can see that the dirt and dust is on top of the gaskets and not down behind. Last pic is just to show the bridging packer and spacer bar clearance.
My factory do seem to get the spacer bars much closer to the gasket than yours which would help a bit.

 

[Gazman16]

So raising the units on packers (assuming there is enough clearance) may help to hide it.
Whats causing it though?
1. Possibly a bad batch of gaskets? I expect that the Liniar technical guy would have checked this and or know something about a bad batch.
I once had a bad batch on another make of conservatory many years ago, The gaskets were too big and I was unable to get the beads in.

2. Glass units are not quite 28mm for some reason? Making them a bit loose and not fully compressing the seals.

3.The gaskets are sometimes a little oily when they come?

As for the argument on whether or not to remove the edge tape around DGU's some glass company's say yes and some say no. Personally I think if its not meant to be there then why bother putting it on? It is a pain to get off and glaziers dont need protection from sharp edges as we deal with them all the time and know how to handle glass.

 

[crank39]

Gaz just my opinion but yours looks just as bad as the op's!

Been googling to try and find a linear profile cross section to see what type of gasket they're using, all I can find is some info saying they use a co-extuded bubble gasket, by the very nature of that it does leave a little trough if you like for water to collect, what I would do assuming that behind that co-extruded gasket there is a groove I would pull off the gasket, I've done this before with eurocell and rehau and clipped in a new gasket, in this case I would use something like the E728 sight line gasket from euro seal

http://www.euroseal.co.uk/files/600seals.pdf

 

[Gazman16]

As I said its a very messy building site! If you look closely at the 2nd pic you can see that the dirt is just on top of the gasket but it hasn't gone down behind. A blast of water from a hose will have it off in no time, I would have had a quick go but the water is turned off.

 

[crank39]

Agreed but even yours are collecting dirt, I would now question how much compression the op has............or hasn't thus allowing the dirt to get much lower down actually between the glass and gasket, maybe the units are too thin, maybe they're 26mm instead of 28, unlikely but you never know

 

[Gazman16]

1. Agreed but even yours are collecting dirt.
Every window does! If you don't clean them or the rain cant get right on them then dirt will build up.

2. I would now question how much compression the op has............or hasn't thus allowing the dirt to get much lower down actually between the glass and gasket, maybe the units are too thin, maybe they're 26mm instead of 28, unlikely but you never know

That was one of my suggestions above too. Unlikely but defiantly needs checking

 

[gasmaneddie]

Thanks yours look much better with the spacer bars closer to the level of the gasket so it would seem there is no standard formula used to size the units to the casements if I could establish they were sized wrong I could go back to installer who could then get replaced by his fabricator/supplier.
Glass is apparently correct size removed and checked with callipers, my personal view is the size of the units causing the problem but how do I go about proving this, my only option open is taking the installer to court as he is first line of contact as I really don't see why I have to look at them, the fabricators are the only party that has not looked at them SGM window manufacturing LTD. they have declined to be involved

 

[Gazman16]

Did you check the unit thickness yourself or did they?
I would personally want to do it myself just to 100% rule that out.
You could whip the beads out on a unit and measure the edge of one with a steel ruler or buy one of these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Glass-Cal...937699?hash=item4d357e1723:g:pm4AAOSwPe1UE1xC
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TGK-9020E...067522?hash=item51d3299082:g:WGcAAOSwv0tVRxMl
They are only cheap ones so I'm not sure if they would be 100% accurate though.

Yes the installer is your first port of call for any problems but to be honest I don't think legal action would get you anything except for some expensive bills and headaches. You would have to try to prove that the windows are not fit for purpose and to be honest they are keeping the water out and the heat in. Unless there is a clause in the contract that says they never get dirty I'm guessing you would have a very hard time getting anywhere.

You may want to start a post here:
http://forum.expertexpert.com/viewforum.php?f=9
The guy who runs the site is a court expert in window matters so definitely worth running it by him before you make any threats.

Personally for the moment at least I would be trying to stay on good terms with the installer and Liniar. They have tried a few things to rectify/diagnose the issue so they do care somewhat and they are not complete cowboys.

So my suggestions for now:
1. Check the glass thickness yourself, If it is less than 28mm thats your likely problem.
2. Ask the installer/Liniar if they could send (or come and fit) some beading from another batch to one unit to see if it makes a difference (just in-case it was an odd batch of bead/internal gasket).
On a unit next to that one they could pack under the unit to bring it up higher. Then wait a while and see if one of these things improves or cures the problem on one of them.

 

[crank39]

Good advice Gazman