Loft clear-out and rewire

[SUNRAY]

Harry, I worked in the magnesium industry for 39 years, casting molten metal at up to 740°C, less than half a metre away from me, and from my perspective, that was a simple task, too. Just saying.

The point I was making, is that the task is so simple, it just doesn't justify a need for a drawing at all. I have never heard of anyone having a need for such a circuit diagram for a simple house lighting. What might be useful, is a simple record of which order the L&N&E, was looped from the mains, around each light on the circuit.

This is one of the reasons I dislike messages (particularly in SMS where they are kept brief) as the meaning is so easily lost for one reason or another. They may be poorly written or incorrectly read/interpreted. I understand exactly what Harry meant and I understand why you took it to mean something different.

Yes to Harry and myself and of course to many others on here, this work you are proposing is really simple bread and butter type work and the thought of a drawing such as yours wouldn't enter our heads.
However the questions you are asking and the drawings you are producing indicate your lack of experience and the need for detailed planning before you start, THIS IS NOT A CRITICISM OR WRONG of you. Some of the less professional members on here are incapable of seeing that and may blunder on treating you as a fool or idiot. My personal view is I'd much rather deal with this effort now; that is before you start work, than afterwards when you have a platefull of spaghetti and no idea how to knit or crochet it back together.

 

[stevipop]

If it really is similar to your drawing.... it's a bit more than just "bad practice".

I'm afraid it's exactly like that. When we redecorate in the future, it's certainly an issue that will be rectified, including a new, vertical chase, capping (one will that will accommodate two T&Es, per SUNRAY's suggestion), and probably a new fixture, too.

The point I was making, is that the task is so simple, it just doesn't justify a need for a drawing at all. I have never heard of anyone having a need for such a circuit diagram for a simple house lighting. What might be useful, is a simple record of which order the L&N&E, was looped from the mains, around each light on the circuit.

My apologies, Harry, if I sounded a little harsh, that wasn't my intention. But, I was trying to impress on you my lack of experience.

Imagine, if you will, a scenario: I'm going to take you back in time. Your eyelids are getting heavy, and when I snap my fingers, you'll be at work on your FIRST day as an apprentice. Your trainer lobs the tools at you, explains what needs doing (which just so happens to be exactly what I'm about to undertake), and says "Right, lad, gerron wi' it, it's simple enough, don't eff about and you'll 'ave it done before brew time."

Was it so simple, even way back then? (Cheeky bastard, I'm not that old, he says).

To me, that diagram is also a simple record. If I can see it on paper in pictorial form, it's easy enough to carry it around and tick it off as I go. What I can't rely on is going to Screwfix, asking for 25m of T&E, oh, and I'd like a bucketful of experience, please, so I don't need to make any diagrams again.

This is one of the reasons I dislike messages (particularly in SMS where they are kept brief) as the meaning is so easily lost for one reason or another. They may be poorly written or incorrectly read/interpreted. I understand exactly what Harry meant and I understand why you took it to mean something different.

Understood, and I, too, dislike communicating in this manner. Forums, texts, and peace treaties are littered with "lost in translation", everywhere.

Yes to Harry and myself and of course to many others on here, this work you are proposing is really simple bread and butter type work and the thought of a drawing such as yours wouldn't enter our heads.
However the questions you are asking and the drawings you are producing indicate your lack of experience and the need for detailed planning before you start, THIS IS NOT A CRITICISM OR WRONG of you. Some of the less professional members on here are incapable of seeing that and may blunder on treating you as a fool or idiot. My personal view is I'd much rather deal with this effort now; that is before you start work, than afterwards when you have a platefull of spaghetti and no idea how to knit or crochet it back together.

Very eloquently put, and sincerely, thank you, SUNRAY.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Yes to Harry and myself and of course to many others on here, this work you are proposing is really simple bread and butter type work and the thought of a drawing such as yours wouldn't enter our heads.

'House bashing', as it was called, was never my bread and butter, just something I got involved in as necessary - very basic, and straight-forward. In most home layouts, the 'design' is perfectly straight forward. One of simply minimising cable run lengths, to minimise cost. That 'design' effort being done, on the fly, once you see the physical barriers.

The work is about as uncomplicated as you can get, especially in a loft, where you have almost unlimited access. The only useful planning which can be made, is the best/shortest route around the ceiling roses.

Imagine, if you will, a scenario: I'm going to take you back in time. Your eyelids are getting heavy, and when I snap my fingers, you'll be at work on your FIRST day as an apprentice. Your trainer lobs the tools at you, explains what needs doing (which just so happens to be exactly what I'm about to undertake), and says "Right, lad, gerron wi' it, it's simple enough, don't eff about and you'll 'ave it done before brew time."

Was it so simple, even way back then? (Cheeky bastard, I'm not that old, he says).

Yes, it really is/was that simple. I rewired my parent's home, when I was 14.

As I keep saying, you really are over-thinking the electrical complexity of the task, and restricting yourself with circuit diagrams. You will end up tearing those diagrams up in frustration. All you need to get firmly in your head, is a one-way, and a two-way lighting circuit.

 

[stevipop]

As I keep saying, you really are over-thinking the electrical complexity of the task

Probably because I lack experience, plus, I had nothing better to do when I was 14 than play out after school. That's why I ended up as a"grunt", casting metal for my sins.

Tell you what, if I tear that diagram up at any point during the task, I'll come back and hold my hands up. I understand where you're coming from, and there's a good chance I won't need it after the first or second rose and switches.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Probably because I lack experience, plus, I had nothing better to do when I was 14 than play out after school. That's why I ended up as a"grunt", casting metal for my sins.

The far more important part of the job, than the pre-planning - is good, and careful workmanship. Make the terminations, then double check they are correct, tidy, plus give each wire a tug, before you call it done, and move on.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I do think you are being a bit unfair, Harry, perhaps Stevi just like drawing the diagrams.

After all this is in the wiki:

Electrics:Lighting Circuit layouts

www.diynot.com

One criticism I would have is the diagrams are over complicated (a bit like the ones Eric posts for two-way light circuits).

This is much clearer for the typical light circuit - even down to forgetting the sleeving on a black wire.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I do think you are being a bit unfair, Harry,

I had in mind, that the OP might end up being dissuaded from tackling it, by him making it seem so very complex, with all his efforts at diagrams. The OP seems to be investing more time in diagrams, than the actual job would need to complete it.

 

[stevipop]

Alright, alright.

Damn you, EFLImpudence, I hate being rumbled. So, before you spill any more beans, I'll come clean. Yes, when other 14yr old kids were rewiring their parents houses, I had a penchant for diagrams, OK? I nearly got arrested for crayon abuse, but it was only with a promise to attend therapy that I escaped custody. It's getting easier these days, but I do have the occasional slip. At least I didn't tease other kids by withholding clearer diagrams that could help them out (ner ner nee ner ner - Haribo voice).

You could redeem yourself by introducing me to Eric, he might have a red one I can't seem to find.

 

[morqthana]

Keep them away from the GD forum - some of the people there will eat them.

 

[securespark]

I personally would bite the bullet and rectify the bad cable drop now while you're doing the rest.

 

[stevipop]

I personally would bite the bullet and rectify the bad cable drop now while you're doing the rest.

If you're referring to the stairwell offset, then we'll wait until we redecorate. Rest assured, it won't be overlooked.